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To: Forest Keeper; adiaireton8; Kolokotronis; The_Reader_David; Blogger; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan
How do we DISTINGUISH the three persons from the one divine nature?

You don't. The only Hypostasis (Person) that is distinguished for being human and divine is the Son in that within Him subsist two distinguished natures, one corporeal and human and the other one incorporeal and divine.

The distinction of the Hypostases is revealed in the so-called Divine Economy of our Salvation, as God reveals Himself as Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all three co-substantial (co-essential), sharing the same divinity (divine nature), all three being equally God, equally divine.

In the process of our salvation, God sends His Son to atone for us, and the Son sends the Spirit once this has been accomplished, so that the Spirit may guide us until the Son returns. But God never leaves us! It is only that Hypostatically God accomplishes different tasks that matter to our salvation.

There can never be a greater sin than to blaspheme against the Spirit (the only transgression that cannot be redeemed), yet the Spirit is often trated as the "third" in line in the West, concentrating mroe on the unified "God," and mentioning the Son more in His human nature.

I believe Kolokotronis, and others (myself included) have, in the past, given you plenty of patristic literature to ponder and easily answer your inquiries, as the Church understood them all along.

One such link is to St. John of Damascus, the last of the so-called "Desert Fathers" whose clarity, in my opinion, supercedes that of the 13th century St. Gregory Palamas.

This is what St. John Damascene says concerning the Word and the Son of God:

Notice his first sentence: so this then one and only God is not Wordless. The creative Intellect (the Wisdom, sofia) of the Father is not without a creative Word or the Creative Spirit (something that we, made in the image and likeness of God, even if severely tarnished, understand intrinsically, since our own intellect cannot be wordless either!) in order to be expressed.

3,278 posted on 01/01/2007 11:16:29 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; adiaireton8; Kolokotronis; The_Reader_David; Blogger; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; HarleyD; ...
FK: "How do we DISTINGUISH the three persons from the one divine nature?"

You don't. The only Hypostasis (Person) that is distinguished for being human and divine is the Son in that within Him subsist two distinguished natures, one corporeal and human and the other one incorporeal and divine.

I am fine with this, and after reading Kolo's post, I may not have been specific enough. Here is what threw me:

[3031] FK: "How do you describe what happened when Jesus prayed? Was He talking to Himself?"

[3031] No. He was praying to God the Father, to the First Person of the Holy Trinity, not to divine nature, just as He was calling on the Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity, and not on divine nature.

When I read this I thought "Not praying to divine nature? Then what? Was Jesus praying to the Father's UN-divine nature?" I don't think you meant that, but I do not know what you did mean. :) If Jesus in prayer was simply talking to a colleague, then He knew not worship. I don't see how that is possible.

However, here is what you said in 3277: "Our Lord Jesus Christ prayed to the Father in strict obedience to Him in His human nature." Now if I had said something this heretical I would certainly have been drawn and quartered. But, since it was you, and you get away with it, I have sympathy for this statement. :) Nonetheless, I still cannot reconcile the two statements.

But God never leaves us! It is only that Hypostatically God accomplishes different tasks that matter to our salvation.

Forgive me if I have forgotten the Orthodox teaching. I thought you were in agreement with the Roman Catholics that the Holy Spirit abandons any body in a state of "major" (mortal) sin before the next confession, and then re-enters the body upon the completion of penance. It has been a while for me on this subject, so I admit to being a little fuzzy. :) I remember that you don't really get into the concept of "mortal" sin all that much, but I couldn't remember what the view was on when the Spirit indwells and whether He leaves, and then comes back, etc.

I believe Kolokotronis, and others (myself included) have, in the past, given you plenty of patristic literature to ponder and easily answer your inquiries, as the Church understood them all along.

You have both given me many links, including yours here to +John of Damascus , and I am very grateful. Thank you. I'm not so sure I understand everything quite so easily, I'm afraid. :) However, I hope I have clarified where I was coming from.


3,828 posted on 01/04/2007 8:44:34 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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