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To: kosta50; P-Marlowe; Forest Keeper; wagglebee; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; bornacatholic; annalex; ...

“and as such she is truly the Theotokos, the bearer of God,”

To be accurate, she was the bearer of the Logos, the Word, that became flesh, not God. It was not the triune God but the second person of the Trinity that assumed human nature, body and soul. His divine nature did not become flesh, it was perfect and complete and nothing could be added to it or taken from it. The incarnation was a “personal” act; the person of the Son of God became incarnate, not his divine nature. In speaking of the incarnation in distinction from the birth of the Logos, His active participation in this historical fact is stressed, and His pre-existence is assumed. It is impossible to speak of the incarnation of one who had no previous existence.

The Word becoming flesh does not mean He ceased to be what He was before. His essential being was exactly the same as before and after the incarnation. John 1:14, “the Word became flesh” does not mean that the Logos changed into flesh, and thus altered His essential nature, but simply that He took on that particular character, that He acquired an additional form, without in any way changing His original nature He remained the infinite and unchangeable Son of God.

The incarnation was an act of each of the divine persons, God, Matt. 1:20, Luke 1:35, John 1:14, Acts 2:20 Rom. 8:3, Gal. 4:4, Phil. 2:7. It was according to the eternal plan, the good pleasure of God in eternity past. The important element in connection with the birth of Jesus was the supernatural operation of the Holy Spirit, for it was only through this that the virgin birth was possible, Matt1:18-20, Luke 1:34-35, Heb. 10:5. Thus He, the Holy Spirit, was the efficient cause of what was conceived in the womb of Mary, and Jesus assumed His human nature from the substance of Mary, not merely resembling our nature but derived from the same stock as ours, and the person who was born was not a human person but the person of the Son of God, who as such was not included in the covenant of works and was in Himself free from the guilt of sin. The Holy Spirit sanctified the human nature of Jesus in its very inception, and thus kept it free from the pollution of sin, not only in its conception but throughout the life of Jesus. John 3:34, Heb. 9:14.


2,932 posted on 12/24/2006 12:03:24 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; Forest Keeper; wagglebee; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; bornacatholic; annalex
To be accurate, she was the bearer of the Logos, the Word, that became flesh, not God. It was not the triune God but the second person of the Trinity that assumed human nature, body and soul

P-Marlowe, you just stated that Incarnate Logos is not God! Lord have mercy!

2,936 posted on 12/24/2006 12:19:04 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: blue-duncan; kosta50; P-Marlowe; Forest Keeper; wagglebee; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; bornacatholic; ..

"Now the Word of God in His man's nature was not like that; for He was not bound to His body, but rather was Himself wielding it, so that He was not only in it, but was actually in everything, and while external to the universe, abode in His Father only. And this was the wonderful thing that He was at once walking as man, and as the Word was quickening all things, and as the Son was dwelling with His Father. So that not even when the virgin bore Him did He suffer any change, nor by being in the body was [His glory] dulled; but, on the contrary, He sanctified the body also. For not even by being in the universe does He share in its nature, but all things, on the contrary, are quickened and sustained by Him." +Athanasius, On the Incarnation of The Word

The final end of Orthodoxy is pure knowledge of the two dogmas of faith - the Trinity and the Duality; to contemplate and know the Trinity as indivisible and yet not merged together; to know the Duality as the two natures of Christ joined in one person - that is, to know and to profess one's faith in the Son of God both before incarnation, and after incarnation, to praise Him in His two natures and wills unmerged, the one Divine and the other human. +Gregory of Sinai

"Trinity is simple unity; it is not merged together - it is three in one. The One three-hypostatical God has the three hypostases perfectly distinct in Himself." +Gregory of Sinai

"The purpose of the incarnate economy of God the Word, which is proclaimed by all the divine scriptures and which we read but do not understand, is surely summed up by saying that He has shared in what was ours to let us share in what was His. The Son of God became the Son of Man in order to make us men the sons of God. By grace He lifts up our race to what He is by nature. He gives birth to us from on high in the Holy Spirit, and then straightway leads us into the kingdom of heaven; or rather, He gives us the grace to have this kingdom within us. We therefore have more than just the hope of entering here; we really possess it as we cry out: 'Our life is hidden with Christ in God.'" +Symeon the New Theologian

BD, The Blessed Mother is, "as the prophets beheld, as the Apostles have taught, as the Church has received, as the Teachers have dogmatised, as the Universe has agreed, as Grace has shown forth, as Truth has revealed, as falsehood has been dissolved, as Wisdom has presented, as Christ awarded, thus we declare; thus we assert,..." most certainly the Most Holy Theotokos.

A Blessed Feast of the Nativity to you all.


2,944 posted on 12/24/2006 12:41:06 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: blue-duncan
To be accurate, she was the bearer of the Logos, the Word, that became flesh, not God.

Would you say that God is one? Or do you think there are there three separate beings, Father, Son and Spirit? What One Person does, the rest are also present and doing. Jesus Himself says that when He says He can only do what the Father is doing. Thus, Mary can be properly called "Theotokos" because she bore the ENTIRE GODHEAD. The Logos is not "part" of God. He is FULLY God without any lacking or missing of part of the Godhead. Thus, the Word is FULLY God - and Mary bore God.

I agree with your second paragraph.

Regards

2,949 posted on 12/24/2006 1:04:22 PM PST by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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