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To: annalex; Kolokotronis; kosta50

A holy image??? What is signified by such designation?

I mean, I am being serious here and want to hear an answer from someone who sees this image as something other than pretty artwork with a lot of symbolism in it.

What do the icons symbolize to you? What do you think when you look at them? Do you pray to them? Do you expect to get something from devotion to them?

What is Greek/Catholic iconography to you?


1,627 posted on 12/16/2006 10:55:59 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger; annalex; Kolokotronis
A holy image??? What is signified by such designation

An image or picture (ikona) of a human being who is holy or saintly.

I am being serious here and want to hear an answer from someone who sees this image as something other than pretty artwork with a lot of symbolism in it

Icons are not art. Icons are not painted; they are written. They tell a visual story of biblical events, or theological concepts. They were used for people who could not read the bible to convey bibilical passages.

What do the icons symbolize to you?

They are not symbols.

What do you think when you look at them?

Admiration. We think of the holy person whose life was devoted to God, who as a saint represents someone we admire and consider our moral and spiritual role model.

Do you pray to them?

No, not to the canvas and the paint, or the physical image. Our prayers are not directed at the object, but at the person in heaven. We pray to Christ; we venerate the saints.

Do you expect to get something from devotion to them?

The hope of all Christians is to become like Christ. Some, the saints, have done a better job of it than most of us. We hope that by following in their examples and steps, we, too, can approach that goal.

1,634 posted on 12/17/2006 5:35:31 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Blogger; annalex; kosta50
Here's a part of the dogmatic decree of the Fathers of the 7th Ecumenical Council held at Constantinople in 787. I think it answers your question.

"We, therefore, following the royal pathway and the divinely inspired authority of our Holy Fathers and the traditions of the Catholic Church (for, as we all know, the Holy Spirit indwells her), define with all certitude and accuracy that just as the figure of the precious and life-giving Cross, so also the venerable and holy images, as well in painting and mosaic as of other fit materials, should be set forth in the holy churches of God, and on the sacred vessels and on the vestments and on hangings and in pictures both in houses and by the wayside, to wit, the figure of our Lord God and Saviour Jesus Christ, of our spotless Lady, the Mother of God, of the honourable Angels, of all Saints and of all pious people. For by so much more frequently as they are seen in artistic representation, by so much more readily are men lifted up to the memory of their prototypes, and to a longing after them; and to these should be given due salutation and honourable reverence (aspasmon kai timhtikhn proskunh-sin), not indeed that true worship of faith (latreian>) which pertains alone to the divine nature; but to these, as to the figure of the precious and life-giving Cross and to the Book of the Gospels and to the other holy objects, incense and lights may be offered according to ancient pious custom. For the honour which is paid to the image passes on to that which the image represents, and he who reveres the image reveres in it the subject represented. For thus the teaching of our holy Fathers, that is the tradition of the Catholic Church, which from one end of the earth to the other hath received the Gospel, is strengthened. Thus we follow Paul, who spake in Christ, and the whole divine Apostolic company and the holy Fathers, holding fast the traditions which we have received. So we sing prophetically the triumphal hymns of the Church, "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Sion; Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem. Rejoice and be glad with all thy heart. The Lord hath taken away from thee the oppression of thy adversaries; thou art redeemed from the hand of thine enemies. The Lord is a King in the midst of thee; thou shalt not see evil any more, and peace be unto thee forever."

Those, therefore who dare to think or teach otherwise, or as wicked heretics to spurn the traditions of the Church and to invent some novelty, or else to reject some of those things which the Church hath received (e.g., the Book of the Gospels, or the image of the cross, or the pictorial icons, or the holy reliques of a martyr), or evilly and sharply to devise anything subversive of the lawful traditions of the Catholic Church or to turn to common uses the sacred vessels or the venerable monasteries, if they be Bishops or Clerics, we command that they be deposed; if religious or laics, that they be cut off from communion.

So we all believe, we all are so minded, we all give our consent and have signed. This is the faith of the Apostles, this is the faith of the orthodox, this is the faith which hath made firm the whole world. Believing in one God, to be celebrated in Trinity, we salute the honourable images !

Those who do not so hold, let them be anathema.

Those who do not thus think, let them be driven far away from the Church. For we follow the most ancient legislation of the Catholic Church. We keep the laws of the Fathers.

We anathematize those who add anything to or take anything away from the Catholic Church.

We anathematize the introduced novelty of the revilers of Christians. We salute the venerable images.

We place under anathema those who do not do this.

Anathema to them who presume to apply to the venerable images the things said in Holy Scripture about idols.

Anathema to those who do not salute the holy and venerable images.

Anathema to those who call the sacred images idols.

Anathema to those who say that Christians resort to the sacred images as to gods.

Anathema to those who say that any other delivered us from idols except Christ our God.

Anathema to those who dare to say that at any time the Catholic Church received idols."

1,635 posted on 12/17/2006 5:44:19 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Blogger; Kolokotronis; kosta50
I can only add to the excellent 1634 and 1635 that this is one area where the Orthodox theology is more developed and refined that Catholic. In the West we do not draw this sharp distinction between the religious art and iconography. Perhaps we should, and for sure the Catholics will greatly benefit from a greater awareness of the spiritual treasures of Eastern iconography.

The Catholic tradition is more oriented toward statues, although I notice more and more Catholics write good and quite canonical icons in the timeless Eastern manner.

A part of the Catholic pop culture are so-called "holy cards" that include stories and images of saints. The art element there is usually non-remarkable from the artistic perspective. They are reminders of the life of a particular saint and form a part of that particular devotion.

A crucifix is a necessity in every Catholic house.



Crucifixion

Zurbaran

1627

2,119 posted on 12/19/2006 7:48:41 AM PST by annalex
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