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To: Ping-Pong; Forest Keeper
I understand what you mean by "love of the world" in reference to evil but there is much of this creation that we can love that is of God. Is it wrong to love that?

The Evangelist says it is.  And we believe John wrote what the Spirit revealed:

Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.  [John 2:15]

We are to "love", if possible.

Can you quote a verse that says that (i.e. "if possible")?  Or are you just making theology on the fly?

The Old Testament says

You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy" [Lev 19:18]

And the New Testament quotes Christ as saying:

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. [Mat  5:44-45]

It isn't possible to love a man that hits an 85 year old woman to steal her purse

But if you could help that man recognize Christ he would repent and would shed tears and would beg God and that woman for forgiveness. And God would save another lost soul. You are confusing love of your enemies with their acts, not their souls. You'd rather see them killed with no chance of repentance, then try to help them accept Christ.

Loving your enemy is recognizing that even someone like that can be saved. But in order for them to see Christ, they have to see Christ in you. And Christ did not revile his enemies, nor did He smite them. And the Bible, which you claim you believe in, teaches you to follow in His steps, and to suffer if need be.

He didn't tell them to carry swords for nothing

And He said two were too many ("enough then"). And He also ordered Peter to put his sword away. And as far as I can remember, He never told the Apostles to use the sword to kill their enemies.

True, but they still have their noses above water

Matter of opinion.

We must live by the sword in this age to stop those that would harm us. We may "live by the sword and die by the sword" but if we don't have a sword we will not only die ourselves but everything we hold dear will fall to evil

Then you must not have much faith that God will protect us (remember walking on water?). What you are saying is what Judaism and Islam teach, not Christianity.

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great. [Mat 5: 10-12]

God knows who will follow Him but He is holding His hand out to others too. It is their choice

Holding out His hand to "others?" Is He 'hoping" they would change their minds? God doesn't "hope," God knows. But He is not partial, and He offers His blessings to everyone, the righteous and the unrighteous.


16,227 posted on 07/21/2007 7:33:31 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper
The Evangelist says it is. And we believe John wrote what the Spirit revealed:....Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. [John 2:15]

I stand corrected but it is difficult not to love this beautiful creation.

Can you quote a verse that says that (i.e. "if possible")? Or are you just making theology on the fly?

(Rom.12:18)If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

But if you could help that man recognize Christ he would repent and would shed tears and would beg God and that woman for forgiveness. And God would save another lost soul. You are confusing love of your enemies with their acts, not their souls. You'd rather see them killed with no chance of repentance, then try to help them accept Christ.

I would love to see all souls saved and I would love for everyone to hear and heed God's Word - it won't happen in this age nor in the next one. How could I help anyone accept Christ if they kill me?

And He said two were too many ("enough then"). And He also ordered Peter to put his sword away. And as far as I can remember, He never told the Apostles to use the sword to kill their enemies.

He told Peter to put his sword away because He came to earth to do the thing Peter was trying to save Him from.

He also said: Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Now...that sword may be the "sword of truth", but it may also be one to fight with.

It could be He thought two swords were enough but He told them to take a sword - Then said He unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.(Luke 22:36)

Also, I just noticed another verse that pertains to a discussion we had yesterday - He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me (Matt.10:37). Here it doesn't say we must "hate" our family but must not love them as much. That shows the other scripture must have been improperly translated.

True, but they still have their noses above water.... Matter of opinion.

True - some of them are bottom feeders (but most of ours are better than most of theirs).

Then you must not have much faith that God will protect us (remember walking on water?). What you are saying is what Judaism and Islam teach, not Christianity.

Of course He will protect us from what we cannot protect ourselves from. I don't think He wants us to stand as a zombie. He provides the bricks and we provide the labor.

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.....Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.....Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great. [Mat 5: 10-12]

These all pertain to when you are teaching others about Him. That is when you are expected to turn the other cheek.

God knows. But He is not partial, and He offers His blessings to everyone, the righteous and the unrighteous.

Yes He knows but His grace offers it to them until their last breath.

16,228 posted on 07/21/2007 8:28:10 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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