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To: Ping-Pong
Yes it would be Christ losing one of His sheep. It is very unlikely. ... So, yes, they can lose their salvation but I don't believe anyone will.

I don't think anyone will either and look to verses like John 10:27-29 : "27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

God will interfere in an elect's life and move them where He wishes them to be but He will not do that to one of free will, unless asked by them.

I don't see how a non-elect would be in a position to ask God for anything. I thought we are told that God does not hear their prayers.

[Re: Rom. 11] Israel means the House of Israel, not the present nation of Israel. The ten lost tribes whom God scattered. They may not be aware of who they are but God knows them.

I'm not sure you are trying to say this, but I don't think that Paul is saying here that anyone is of the elect by birthright. Paul would completely contradict this idea in passages such as:

Gal 3:26-29 : 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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The point I'm not certain about is unrepented for sins. Are they blotted out as the ones we repent for or is there some type of punishment or correction?

I think there certainly can be/is earthly punishment and correction for sins we commit after belief/salvation. However, I do not think the failure to repent for those sins jeopardizes our saved status. Jesus died for ALL of our sins once and for all:

1 Peter 2:24 : 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

1 Cor 15:3 : For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, ...

There are others, and it must certainly be true that some of the directly intended audience was not even born yet when Jesus made His sacrifice, i.e. they were in the same boat we are in now. There is no distinction between pre- and post-belief sins. Therefore, it must apply to all sins ever committed.

As far as losing our salvation I know that He would never leave us but I do believe it is possible for us to turn our back on Him.

Yes, we can turn away, but God promises that He will always bring His elect back to Him before it is too late for salvational purposes. We have already noted the end of John 10. There is also:

Phil 1:6 : ... being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:3-5 : 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade — kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

15,780 posted on 06/26/2007 7:20:18 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
I don't see how a non-elect would be in a position to ask God for anything. I thought we are told that God does not hear their prayers.

His salvation is there for anyone and not all that believe in Christ are the elect. Wouldn't He hear the prayers of those that believed in Him? - (Mark 16:16)He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I'm not sure you are trying to say this, but I don't think that Paul is saying here that anyone is of the elect by birthright. Paul would completely contradict this idea in passages such as:

No, that wasn't what I meant. The verses you quoted (Gal 3:26-29), I believe, just means those that accept Christ - they are not necessarily the "elect" but they do become part of the family of Christ.

The elect are not just those that believe in Christ but are forordained, predestinated, justified, called to His purpose and glorified. (Rom.8:28-30)

They are the 7,000 mentioned in Romans 11:4 -

But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."

The number 7 means spiritual completeness, so that 7,000 could mean as many as God wishes it to be, or it could mean literally 7,000. Personally, I believe it is much more. They are different than the others. They have a destiny in the end of days, which (I believe) the verse you quoted refers to:

1Peter 1:5.Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I think the other verse you quoted also refers to the same thing - Phil 1:6 : ... being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

I think there certainly can be/is earthly punishment and correction for sins we commit after belief/salvation. However, I do not think the failure to repent for those sins jeopardizes our saved status. Jesus died for ALL of our sins once and for all:

I agree with that, in that it "doesn't jeopardize our saved status", but I wonder, if not repented for, would there be some repercussion on a celestial level?

15,788 posted on 06/27/2007 7:59:18 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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