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To: Forest Keeper
This is what I don't get: how can an elect fail at this point if the sin is unforgivable? Can an elect lose his salvation? I have never heard of that given the definition of an elect. Wouldn't that be Christ losing one of His sheep?

Yes it would be Christ losing one of His sheep. It is very unlikely. Put yourself in that place. Loving God as you do, knowing the truth of what will happen at the end of days and that it is Satan sitting in Jerusalem, pretending to be Jesus - would you either start to worship him or would you not allow the Holy Sprit to speak through you? In order to commit the unpardonable sin that is what you would have to do. So, yes, they can lose their salvation but I don't believe anyone will.

That is the destiny of one of God's elect. Those that die before that time are referred to as the remnant. They bring His Word forward but the elect have a specific duty.

BTW, what is the difference between chosen, called, and faithful? I have never heard of that distinction before among the elect.

They all refer to the elect. They are faithful, to the end and will not follow Satan. They are chosen by God from the foundation and they are called by Him. The others are of free will. God will interfere in an elect's life and move them where He wishes them to be but He will not do that to one of free will, unless asked by them.

Rom.11:2. God hath not cast away His people which he foreknew......
4.But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."
(Remember, he deceives the whole world and, as he has the others already, he is coming for Christians. They may love God but they haven't been taught that he is coming before Jesus and they will embrace him with open arms, believing he is Jesus)
5.Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
7.What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8.(According as it is written, "God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear";) unto this day.
25.For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Israel means the House of Israel, not the present nation of Israel. The ten lost tribes whom God scattered. They may not be aware of who they are but God knows them.

I do not believe it is possible to believe without having repented, that is, at the point of salvation. Who is a person that truly believes, but has not repented? That would make no sense to me. To believe requires minimal understanding, which would require the understanding of the necessity of repentance, i.e. that's a huge part of what "belief" and "salvation" means. Now, whether the idea of repentance is something that must be repeated over and over again throughout life towards justification, is a matter of strong contention I have with the Roman Catholics. :)

I agree with you in that if you believe and love God how could you not repent? The point I'm not certain about is unrepented for sins. Are they blotted out as the ones we repent for or is there some type of punishment or correction? As far as loosing our salvation I know that He would never leave us but I do believe it is possible for us to turn our back on Him.

........Ping

15,763 posted on 06/25/2007 9:36:13 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong
Yes it would be Christ losing one of His sheep. It is very unlikely. ... So, yes, they can lose their salvation but I don't believe anyone will.

I don't think anyone will either and look to verses like John 10:27-29 : "27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

God will interfere in an elect's life and move them where He wishes them to be but He will not do that to one of free will, unless asked by them.

I don't see how a non-elect would be in a position to ask God for anything. I thought we are told that God does not hear their prayers.

[Re: Rom. 11] Israel means the House of Israel, not the present nation of Israel. The ten lost tribes whom God scattered. They may not be aware of who they are but God knows them.

I'm not sure you are trying to say this, but I don't think that Paul is saying here that anyone is of the elect by birthright. Paul would completely contradict this idea in passages such as:

Gal 3:26-29 : 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

---------------

The point I'm not certain about is unrepented for sins. Are they blotted out as the ones we repent for or is there some type of punishment or correction?

I think there certainly can be/is earthly punishment and correction for sins we commit after belief/salvation. However, I do not think the failure to repent for those sins jeopardizes our saved status. Jesus died for ALL of our sins once and for all:

1 Peter 2:24 : 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

1 Cor 15:3 : For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, ...

There are others, and it must certainly be true that some of the directly intended audience was not even born yet when Jesus made His sacrifice, i.e. they were in the same boat we are in now. There is no distinction between pre- and post-belief sins. Therefore, it must apply to all sins ever committed.

As far as losing our salvation I know that He would never leave us but I do believe it is possible for us to turn our back on Him.

Yes, we can turn away, but God promises that He will always bring His elect back to Him before it is too late for salvational purposes. We have already noted the end of John 10. There is also:

Phil 1:6 : ... being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:3-5 : 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade — kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

15,780 posted on 06/26/2007 7:20:18 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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