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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper
Adam and Eve were perfectly free to reject the Serpent's offer. They were not forced to eat the forbidden fruit. They made a free decision to disobey.

Tsk, tsk. As I've pointed out several times now, Eve did not make a "free decision" to disobey; she was deceived. It states this twice in scriptures. To say Eve made a "free" decision while being deceived is like saying people who are tricked into signing a document made a free decision. I guess we wouldn't need as many lawyers. If it give any comfort, I should point out that I was listening to a sermon this weekend by a well respected Reformed preacher who indicated the same thing. He was wrong as well.

This is a rather important point in understanding the fall of Adam. It was because of Adam that the race died, tainted by original sin (which the Orthodox don't believe); not because of Eve.

There are only two choices; God's way or sin. That's it.

15,758 posted on 06/25/2007 4:50:08 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper
Eve did not make a "free decision" to disobey; she was deceived. It states this twice in scriptures.

I agree. But her failure to repent,,when given the opportunity to do so, was a free decision.

To say Eve made a "free" decision while being deceived is like saying people who are tricked into signing a document made a free decision.

Absolutely. But she was not tricked by God when Who gave her a chance to repent.

This is a rather important point in understanding the fall of Adam. It was because of Adam that the race died, tainted by original sin (which the Orthodox don't believe); not because of Eve.

It was his fault because Eve was his, she belonged to him, and he was responsible for her. The Bible authors believed that man is the head and the head is responsible. It had nothing to do with deception but with who is in charge. And who is in charge takes the blame.

The unforgivable sin was not that they abused their freedom, since freedom carries the potential to disobey, but their refusal to show remorse, their failure to repent when given the opportunity to do so.

There are only two choices; God's way or sin. That's it.

That is correct. Not only are they our choices, but they are our free choices.

PS [the original sin] "which the Orthodox don't believe in."

The Orthodox do believe in original (ancestral) sin, as the sin committed by Adam and Eve. We do not believe that we are born with the blame that they they deserved; only with consequence of their wrongdoing, just as a drug-addicted infant born of a drug-addicted mother suffers the consequence of being addicted to drugs, but is free from any guilt associated with its mothers' sin.

15,761 posted on 06/25/2007 6:53:45 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: HarleyD
Have you ever read Lewis's Perelandra

Among other things it's an interesting reflection on the sin of Eve.

THis just seems to very speculative to me, but how deceived do you have to be. The Lord says,"Don't eat the apple." The serpent says,"He didn't mean it." It just strikes me as the kind of deceit that needs a willing victim, one open to the possibility the God, uh, misspoke.

15,766 posted on 06/25/2007 2:39:20 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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