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To: Quix; Mad Dawg
I can’t buy . . . especially without any qualification . . . that Paul knew what he was doing was wrong. Don’t buy it at all. Paul took pride in keeping the whole of the law as few others managed to do as well at. It was his ZEAL FOR GOD AND GOD’S LAW that compelled him to trash, thrash and destroy Christians.

Yes, I have no doubt that SAUL thought he was doing the Lord's work. But, he was LOST at that time, unsaved, damned. My main point was that Saul was wrong. He "should have known" that murdering was wrong, but he didn't see it that way until our Lord Jesus opened his eyes. (So to speak :) So, I said "he knew" when I should have said "he should have known". :) IOW, not only was he wrong about Christianity, but he was also wrong about what he thought was Judaism.

15,461 posted on 06/01/2007 3:01:11 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper

Reasonable enough point.


15,463 posted on 06/01/2007 5:03:55 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Forest Keeper
Well, one of my favorite metaphors is "the reaction has become self-sustaining", aka "the straw the broke the camel's back".

I don't think anybody much in those days "knew" that killing members of a heretical sect was wrong. Look at what goes on among Muslims today in that part of the world.

Yes, with God's patient hammering into our heads, we have finally doped it out and reached the "Duh!" moment, but it took a long time for even some humans to get that idea.

SO yeah, if Paul had had a heart attack instead of a vision on the road to Damascus, I guess he'd be in the warm place now.

BUT, I still want to say that being in the state of sin is not JUST evil everywhere. It's more like everything out of joint, out of sync.

By grace (IMHO) Paul was open to God. God was working on him. How trickily God works ("with the crooked You are wily") to convert us without frying our brains! Paul wanted to do God's will (was 180 degrees out of phase on that ...), and, I think knew somehow that he was doing a lousy job of being a son of the Covenant. Maybe even his desperation at his own inescapable sinfulness contributed to the anger and hostility he felt toward us.

Then, I can see a scrupulous thinker wondering,"Suppose I'm just really, really wrong," or thinking, "My sinfulness is so wretched that only an innocent man could pay the price of it ... uh, wait a minute! Oh. My. God."

I'm suggesting, I guess, that God works slowly and carefully, and that He had His eye on Paul and finally finally got him to take the bait, and rejoicing reeled him in.

15,464 posted on 06/01/2007 6:39:48 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.)
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