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To: jo kus; kosta50
FK to Kosta: "This is why I don't understand when you say that your opinion on occasion conflicts with Church teaching."

That is because the Protestant mindset is to defer to themselves and their own opinion, while those of the Church defer to the Church.

That's not right, our mindset is to defer to scripture only. Sometimes my previous opinion has disagreed with scripture, such as with OSAS. Then, once I really learn the scripture I change my opinion to agree with it. Sanctification has happened and I am the better for it. AND, my true opinion HAS indeed changed. This is the part I'm talking about.

FK: "I respectfully disagree and say that not only does MY local church not know the truth fully, but that God's Church does not know the truth fully (unless it is unknowable to the individual). Otherwise, there is no more growth and sanctification ceases."

Sanctification is not "knowing about" Christ, as if you are studying for a test on your Bible Commentary. Kosta will no doubt agree that the holiest and most saintly are often the simplest of people, people who could care less what were the various theological explanations of grace vs. free will and the Scripture quotes that back up each side. This makes your faith strictly intellectual. ...

You are inferring what I did not imply. I was clearly speaking of "THE TRUTH" as a generality (Christian). Sanctification isn't ONLY knowing "about" Christ, however, it is certainly included in knowing Him through the scriptures more and more. I don't think you would deny that. Of course there are people without Bibles who are more sanctified than I am now. That is all controlled by God. But since I DO have a Bible I am sanctified when I read it and learn to be more like Him.

This does not mean my faith is only intellectual, I just didn't speak of the spiritual side. That includes prayer and meditation. I do not think the spiritual side of faith includes putting trust into other men. "Spiritual" is between the individual and God.

15,362 posted on 05/28/2007 5:52:06 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
I wrote: the Protestant mindset is to defer to themselves and their own opinion, while those of the Church defer to the Church.

That's not right, our mindset is to defer to scripture only.

FK, everyone here "defers to the Bible" in a sense. However, you defer to YOUR OPINION of what that Bible says, not to the Church's understanding of what the Bible says. That is our area of concern. That is where the innovation and heresy comes from. This removes the context by which the Bible was given to us. The Bible was not given to us to read and cut and paste what we want and invent our own theologies, using clips and snips out of context to "prove" them.

You are inferring what I did not imply. I was clearly speaking of "THE TRUTH" as a generality (Christian). Sanctification isn't ONLY knowing "about" Christ, however, it is certainly included in knowing Him through the scriptures more and more. I don't think you would deny that. Of course there are people without Bibles who are more sanctified than I am now.

And so you have denied your own thesis. Reading the Bible is not absolutely necessary for "growing in sanctity" Faith comes from HEARING the Gospel, according to Paul. READING it is not a requirement.

since I DO have a Bible I am sanctified when I read it and learn to be more like Him.

Wrong. Reading it, in of itself, does not add to your sanctity. Sanctity is becoming holy, not knowledgable. I know atheists who are familiar with the Bible. I know very left wing liberals who call themselves Bible believers, but think nothing of killing innocent humans in the womb... There is a difference between knowledge and application of that knowledge. We will be rewarded in heaven when we DO the will of God, not KNOW the will of God. We must OBEY the Commandments, not KNOW the commandments. Reading and not obeying makes us even more damnable.

Regards

15,391 posted on 05/29/2007 8:35:49 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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