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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
I wrote: the Protestant mindset is to defer to themselves and their own opinion, while those of the Church defer to the Church.

That's not right, our mindset is to defer to scripture only.

FK, everyone here "defers to the Bible" in a sense. However, you defer to YOUR OPINION of what that Bible says, not to the Church's understanding of what the Bible says. That is our area of concern. That is where the innovation and heresy comes from. This removes the context by which the Bible was given to us. The Bible was not given to us to read and cut and paste what we want and invent our own theologies, using clips and snips out of context to "prove" them.

You are inferring what I did not imply. I was clearly speaking of "THE TRUTH" as a generality (Christian). Sanctification isn't ONLY knowing "about" Christ, however, it is certainly included in knowing Him through the scriptures more and more. I don't think you would deny that. Of course there are people without Bibles who are more sanctified than I am now.

And so you have denied your own thesis. Reading the Bible is not absolutely necessary for "growing in sanctity" Faith comes from HEARING the Gospel, according to Paul. READING it is not a requirement.

since I DO have a Bible I am sanctified when I read it and learn to be more like Him.

Wrong. Reading it, in of itself, does not add to your sanctity. Sanctity is becoming holy, not knowledgable. I know atheists who are familiar with the Bible. I know very left wing liberals who call themselves Bible believers, but think nothing of killing innocent humans in the womb... There is a difference between knowledge and application of that knowledge. We will be rewarded in heaven when we DO the will of God, not KNOW the will of God. We must OBEY the Commandments, not KNOW the commandments. Reading and not obeying makes us even more damnable.

Regards

15,391 posted on 05/29/2007 8:35:49 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: jo kus; Forest Keeper
Wrong. Reading it, in of itself, does not add to your sanctity. Sanctity is becoming holy, not knowledgable. I know atheists who are familiar with the Bible. I know very left wing liberals who call themselves Bible believers, but think nothing of killing innocent humans in the womb... There is a difference between knowledge and application of that knowledge. We will be rewarded in heaven when we DO the will of God, not KNOW the will of God. We must OBEY the Commandments, not KNOW the commandments. Reading and not obeying makes us even more damnable

Amen!

15,418 posted on 05/29/2007 2:53:44 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: jo kus; kosta50
FK, everyone here "defers to the Bible" in a sense. However, you defer to YOUR OPINION of what that Bible says, not to the Church's understanding of what the Bible says.

I don't believe that the Magisterium is the sole interpretive discerner of truth, and you don't think the Holy Spirit wants a close personal relationship with His children such that He would give such truth to the laity.

FK: "Of course there are people without Bibles who are more sanctified than I am now."

And so you have denied your own thesis. Reading the Bible is not absolutely necessary for "growing in sanctity" Faith comes from HEARING the Gospel, according to Paul. READING it is not a requirement.

I don't think I've said or implied anything like this. I HAVE said that when I read the Bible I am sanctified. I don't think I said it was the only way. Not only is there also oral teaching of what IS in the Bible, but there is also prayer and the ordinances/sacraments which can involve sanctification.

FK: ...since I DO have a Bible I am sanctified when I read it and learn to be more like Him.

Wrong. Reading it, in of itself, does not add to your sanctity. Sanctity is becoming holy, not knowledgeable. I know atheists who are familiar with the Bible.

Then perhaps you do not believe that God's word has any real power in and of itself:

John 17:17 : Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

John 8:51 : I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

Heb 1:3 : The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Of course there are tons more. Reading the Bible sanctifies believers, it is useless to the lost. I was speaking clearly about what it does for ME. I regret IF you believe that immersing yourself in God's written word does not add to your faith.

15,489 posted on 06/03/2007 6:33:23 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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