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To: kosta50; annalex; HarleyD; Kolokotronis; Quix; kawaii; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; blue-duncan
Cain inherited from his parents the knowledge of good and evil. That implies the knowledge of God as well as sin (so he was not completely "dead" as the Reformed believe). That makes him liable in his freedom to choose.

Total depravity does NOT mean that we are all born axe-murderers. :) It has nothing to do with that idea. It just means that because of the Fall, we are all born into sin and are slaves to it. Also, that we cannot choose God on our own. We cannot serve two masters. While our only nature is sinful we cannot come to God. God must deal with that sinful nature first. "Knowledge of good and evil" is a separate subject from the nature we are born with.

Before I was saved I had a knowledge that killing was evil, but that did not make me a murderer. Knowledge does not automatically lead to action. However, at that time I was still a lost sinner and doomed to hell because of my nature. Nature DOES automatically lead to action.

Thank you for the background on how wine was used.

15,300 posted on 05/27/2007 1:27:50 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; annalex; HarleyD; Kolokotronis; Quix; kawaii; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; ...
Total depravity does NOT mean that we are all born axe-murderers

Experimental psychology and even common sense tell us that we can all be driven to violence.

It just means that because of the Fall, we are all born into sin

We are? How so? Is the body by itself sinful? Or is our soul sinful? And if so, is it not God who gives us the soul? At which point does it become sinful? It could not be in the act of procreation in marriage because marriage is an institution of God; procreation in marriage is not a sinful act.

No one is born into sin or with sin. Sin is something we must commit to be accountable, just as you believe that you must accept Christ in order to be "saved" (which makes it incumbent upon your act of "acceptance," talk about man-mediated salvation).

An alcohol or drug-addicted infant is not guilty for its addiction, but is born with a devastating consequence of its mother's sin of alcohol or drug abuse. In anything, that infant is a victim of sin, as we all are born victims of sin.

Also, that we cannot choose God on our own.

Certainly we can, once God knocks on our hearts. How can you choose something or miss something until you know it exists?!? But once you know, you can choose.

15,350 posted on 05/28/2007 10:01:57 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; HarleyD; Kolokotronis; Quix; kawaii; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; ...
we are all born into sin and are slaves to it. Also, that we cannot choose God on our own.

Yet the scripture is full of praise for some people, Abel right in the same scope as Cain.

15,379 posted on 05/28/2007 10:10:09 PM PDT by annalex
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