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To: Ping-Pong
I don't mean that we should not listen to teachers. I was responding to the statement of he defends those Christians who never read the Bible - and he praises them!"

I do not think ANY Christian teacher (me being one) should be concerned about "bible knowledge" in of itself, but rather whether this knowledge of God is put to practice in one's life or not. THAT is why we teach. The barbarians of Gaul whom Irenaeus speaks of were living out there faith in love, WITHOUT reading the Bible. I would imagine that this was very common up to the time of the printing press. I read that the literacy rate during the first few hundred years of the common era in the Western Roman Empire was less than 10%. Bible reading was out of the question for many people, even if they were so inclined to read it.

While we obtain knowledge from others we should always check them out in the scriptures.

I understand your desire to ensure that the Bible is adhered to when people teach us. I agree with it in a manner of speaking. However, when we place our own readings of the Bible above the community's, then we have moved into "private interpretation" of the Scriptures. There is very little precedent for such things. Rather than saying we should check them against the Bible, it would be more correct to "check them against the Traditions given, both oral AND written", as Paul wrote the Thessalonians. We have been taught, both orally and in written form. We have a particular idea of what is right and what is wrong. We compare teachings to this paradigm that we hold, given to the entire community. Thus, the apostles tell their charges to look to the body of teachings they had been given.

Other religions also base their beliefs on what their church teaches. Surprisingly - they all think they are correct. No one should be blindly led by any church, or any man, ever.

Is this to state that our conscience be our guide? St Aquinas agrees with you. He said that if our conscience tells us that Jesus did not rise from the dead, we shouldn't believe it. We must adhere to our conscience - while opening searching for the truth. We cannot blindly believe something because someone else told us so. As long as we are open to the truth, we should examine teachings, using our reason WITH our faith. The latter does not dispense of the former. They are wedded. So if that is what you mean, I agree with you. We should subject the "truth" to some test. That includes the Bible itself, if we are to use it as a reference point later in our search for truth.

Regards

15,295 posted on 05/27/2007 9:48:45 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: jo kus
I do not think ANY Christian teacher (me being one) should be concerned about "bible knowledge" in of itself, but rather whether this knowledge of God is put to practice in one's life or not.

Putting it into practice in one's life is, as you say, the most important factor. To receive truth and not adhere to it is a much greater error than to have never heard truth.

Rather than saying we should check them against the Bible, it would be more correct to "check them against the Traditions given, both oral AND written", as Paul wrote the Thessalonians.

Jo kus, I can't agree with you here. The traditions of man can be very dangerous and change over time. God's Word does not. God sent His Son and His prophets to teach us. We, of course, listen to our teachers and those we respect and we learn from them. God judges those teachers first and then us. We will not be able to say, but he taught me that was a religious thing to do. He wants us to know His Word.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God
15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, "Men and brethern, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

That is what can happen if you don't read the Word of God. People love to have their "ears tickled".

Mark 4:24 And He said unto them, "Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

Father warns us in Jeremiah 14 about listening to others, of following their traditions:

10...Thus have they loved to wander they have not refrained their feet, therefore the Lord doth not accept them; He will now remember their iniquity, and visit their sins."
12.When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence."
These people thought they were doing the right thing. They were fasting and making offerings to the Lord - apparently just playing church, but He will not hear them. They are following traditions of man, not God and the only way to know is to know His Word.
14.Then the Lord said unto me, "The prophets prophesy lies in My name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them; they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

There are many that will come in His name, disguised as men of God. We are to know them by their fruits but if we don't know the Word how will we know they are false teachers?

Is this to state that our conscience be our guide? St Aquinas agrees with you. He said that if our conscience tells us that Jesus did not rise from the dead, we shouldn't believe it. We must adhere to our conscience - while opening searching for the truth.

His Word tells us Jesus rose from the dead. If one's conscience told us otherwise that person is not of God. I do not think we should listen to our conscience if His Word tells us - it makes the final ruling. Without access to His Word I believe our conscience is then all we would be able to follow. I believe that there is a barometer for goodness in all of us.

........Ping

15,296 posted on 05/27/2007 11:09:06 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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