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To: Alamo-Girl; Quix
Alamo-Girl,

Of course I agree that God's judgment is the one that ultimately matters. But the fact that God's judgment is the one that ultimately matters does not mean that we should not judge ourselves (I mean our own individual self). I think you agree with me on that point at least.

So the fact that God's judgment about whether someone is a heretic is the one that ultimately matters, does not tell us *now* whether any particular person is a heretic, or whether any particular theological belief is heresy. And yet it is extremely important for us to know whether what we are believing is heretical or not, since as I pointed out, at least some heresies are "damnable".

We often never take the time to consider whether or not our present position is heretical. Most people I talk to have never taken the time to consider this. They assume that their present position is correct, and that those who disagree with them are wrong. And they say that God will sort it all out at the Final Judgment. But that is what the heretics of the first four centuries said as well, and that is how they thought. And yet they were seriously mistaken, being themselves ensnared in those "damnable heresies".

Strangely enough, it is a quirk of [fallen] human nature that always tends to think that error belongs to "the other guy". We don't find it surprising that there were so many heresies in the first four centuries. But we seem to think that 21st cenutry man has quite outgrown heresies. Sure we acknowledge that there are liberals who deny the deity of Christ, etc. But do we really think that there are heresies all around today? Generally not. Heresies were for back then, when all those people couldn't seem to get the truth right. But we're past all that. Surely, at the very least, *I* am not a heretic. Why, the thought has never even crossed my mind, and if it did, I would dismiss it in a heartbeat as absurd.

But that is the most dangerous position to be in, a kind of false security that prevents one from reflecting on the very possibility that one is grossly mistaken. That is why it is an important exercise to consider whether one might be wrong. And one way to do that is to look at the whole situation from another point of view, a point of view one presently does not hold. (Of course that may require a little study in order to understand the other point of view.) So my question to Quix was an attempt to prompt that sort of mental exercise. Assuming for the sake of argument that the Catholic Church is the true Church that Christ founded, and its Magisterium the true ecclesial authority, how would Quix know that? Would his subjective experiences feel or smell any different than his present subjective feelings and smells?

If not, then he can't be so confident in dismissing the authenticity and authority of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

-A8

14,958 posted on 05/22/2007 9:17:17 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply!

Of course I agree that God's judgment is the one that ultimately matters. But the fact that God's judgment is the one that ultimately matters does not mean that we should not judge ourselves (I mean our own individual self). I think you agree with me on that point at least.

Yes, of course.

We often never take the time to consider whether or not our present position is heretical. Most people I talk to have never taken the time to consider this. They assume that their present position is correct, and that those who disagree with them are wrong. And they say that God will sort it all out at the Final Judgment…

So my question to Quix was an attempt to prompt that sort of mental exercise. Assuming for the sake of argument that the Catholic Church is the true Church that Christ founded, and its Magisterium the true ecclesial authority, how would Quix know that? Would his subjective experiences feel or smell any different than his present subjective feelings and smells?

If not, then he can't be so confident in dismissing the authenticity and authority of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

I cannot speak for you or Quix, but I can testify of my personal journey in this regard.

First, my age. I’m sixty years on this earth and have spent the biggest part of it walking with the Lord.

When I was yet new to the faith I spent huge amounts of time in fervent study of the Bible, ancient manuscripts, commentaries, maps, lexicons and the ilk. Over the years I have attended many different churches, studied their doctrines, spoken with their members. And my family’s favorite subject is Christ, so most of our conversations eventually turn to Him. All of my family is Christian, about half of them are Catholic.

Although I had been saved for many a year, it wasn’t until I learned how to let go and let God, to trust Him, that I really experienced the power of God, the indwelling of the Spirit. Miracles followed. Chief among them is the difference in me. I am nothing like the person I was. She was self-centered, mean-spirited and unlovable.

The second most important miracle is that the Scriptures which I had studied for long now come alive within me as my eyes pass over the text. When I need to know a thing, He brings it to mind. The Scriptures are no longer a manuscript to me, but the words of God authenticated by the Author Himself.

The third most important miracle is His personal leading. He warns me away from places and things and thoughts and people – and draws me to others. He opens my mind to understand things I should not be able to understand.

And then there have been many specific physical and spiritual miracles. For instance, when my beloved, ever so close, sister graduated to heaven, I felt holes in my being from her absence and prayed for God to fill those holes with Himself. He answered that prayer even before the word “amen” left my mind. And when I prayed asking Him about the crucifixion, He gave me a mental image of a great Light coming from the Cross, extending over all of space and time - and innumerable tiny bubbles (us) rising up from the darkness and disappearing into the Light.

The physical healings in answer to prayer were so many that it brings a chuckle in the family every time the doctors say “we must have made a mistake” or “I don’t know what it was.” And I’ve always had exactly what I needed – never too much, never too little.

Some would scoff and say “so what – no seas were parted, no mountains moved, no dead brought to life.” And to that I and the rest of my family would chuckle, our personal seas were parted, our personal mountains were leveled, our spiritually dead are now alive.

So, no, I am not concerned about heresies – either my beliefs or those of my beloved Catholic relatives. I have cast all of my burdens on Him, I have thrown all caution to His wind. My fate is in His hands. I choose to believe Him, to trust Him, to count on Him.


14,961 posted on 05/22/2007 10:25:12 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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