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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus; annalex; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
Well, if we put all this together now, it appears you are saying that when Christ healed others, it was due to the Father's response to prayers from Christ's human nature. HOWEVER, when Christ arose, it was due to Christ's divine nature, somehow apart from the Father

The Resurrection was in response to prayer of His human nature, FK; it was not an act of humility, or obedience, which was so essential in His earthly ministry. It was an act of His divine power.

He never doubted His Resurrection. There was no need to pray for that.

The Fathers who formulated the Creed were careful to stress that He rose and not to repeat +Paul's misleading words that He was raised.

If His healing were divine interventions of His own, then what would be the purpose of His human nature and ministry, FK? To show us that God can do anything? He didn't come to teach us that in order to believe we must see.

No, He came to enable His Apostles to walk in His steps, in perfect humility and obedience, so that even they can, by imitating Jesus, come to the Father. How did the Apostles heal if not through the purity of their prayers? Hocuspocus?

How could BEV Mary conceive if not through the purity of her complete submission to the will of God, not because she was forced, but of her own free will and free of any doubt, ego or pride?

14,795 posted on 05/21/2007 7:05:15 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Correction:

The Resurrection was in response to prayer of His human nature should read: The Resurrection was not in response to prayer of His human nature

Cutting and pasting, what can I say...not enough coffee... :)

14,796 posted on 05/21/2007 7:10:14 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; jo kus; annalex; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
FK: "Well, if we put all this together now, it appears you are saying that when Christ healed others, it was due to the Father's response to prayers from Christ's human nature. HOWEVER, when Christ arose, it was due to Christ's divine nature, somehow apart from the Father."

The Resurrection was NOT in response to prayer of His human nature, FK; it was not an act of humility, or obedience, which was so essential in His earthly ministry. It was an act of His divine power. He never doubted His Resurrection. There was no need to pray for that.

When you say that He never needed to pray about the Resurrection because He never doubted, what does that say about the things He DID pray about? I don't think Jesus ever prayed out of genuine doubt. From His existence at the time, I think He prayed to commune with the Father and Spirit, and to set an example for us as to what we should do also.

The Fathers who formulated the Creed were careful to stress that He rose and not to repeat +Paul's misleading words that He was raised.

What's the difference? Why is this significant, with the understanding that "He was raised" is not exclusionary of Christ's Divine power? No one thinks that Christ was needful or dependent for help. Neither did Paul.

If His healing were divine interventions of His own, then what would be the purpose of His human nature and ministry, FK? To show us that God can do anything? He didn't come to teach us that in order to believe we must see.

Jesus says flat out in John 20:29 - "Because you have seen me, you have believed; ...". Eventually, it WORKED for the disciples. Of course He goes on to say that the rest of us who believe are blessed, having not seen. But there was still a point to it.

One purpose of His human nature and ministry was to show us a God we humans could "identify with" and "touch". Rather than lightning bolts from Mount Olympus, we know about a God who condescended to take human form and perform miracles Himself to convert the first Christians. This system worked because wherever He went people marveled at Him. This part of the plan was intended to be short-lived, but it certainly did get the ball rolling. :) I believe the Bible is clear that Jesus claimed to be God. He didn't mince any words, so when people saw His miracles it would have been fine for them to assume He accomplished them on His own authority. Jesus plainly CLAIMED power and authority.

How did the Apostles heal if not through the purity of their prayers? Hocuspocus?

This does not appear to mesh with the general Apostolic belief that great power was voluntarily turned over to the Apostles and their chosen successors by God without prayer by them as a catalyst. If the Apostles healed by "perfect prayer", then is the same true of priests and the absolution of sin? IOW, do all priests validly (and supernaturally) forgive sins through perfect prayer? I don't see how this would be possible since some priests are unworthy. Yet, in their cases, the imperfect prayer still counts as efficacious.

How could BEV Mary conceive if not through the purity of her complete submission to the will of God, not because she was forced, but of her own free will and free of any doubt, ego or pride?

"BEV" Mary conceived through the purity of God's good, pleasing, and perfect will, not through the "yeah, OK" of some young teenager. :) She wasn't forced, her heart was changed just as it is in all believers. She wanted to obey God, and said OK because God specifically ordained that she would.

15,190 posted on 05/25/2007 2:40:42 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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