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To: Blogger; Kolokotronis
I am pinging our naive Greek speaker for quality control. Kolo your comments are welcome.

You say that the Greek Orthodox commentary was dishonest. Okay, then I ask you are you honest? Did you actually read the Greek text of Mat 1:25 when you say that the word used is "first-born?"

The Greek original uses the word uioV which means son, not firstborn, not fisrt-begotten, just son.

Frankly I don't know where KJV is getting the "firstborn" in this passage, but to me it sounds like some wild poetic license the part of the men who made KJV, for there is no "firstborn" prwtotokoV in the ORIGINAL Greek. Talk about dishonesty!

Here is the whole verse:

I don't see prwtotokoV. Do you?

Lesson learned: what you read in English is not necessarily what was written. I have said that on this forum many times. Bibles come in many varieties and leave equally varied impressions.

Here we are having a tug-of-war over a word that doesn't exist in the original but was fraudulently introduced in the English version 1,600 years after Christ, and we take it as authoritative "word of God." Is that not the ultimate in deceit and dishonesty?

1,441 posted on 12/14/2006 9:29:02 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Frankly I don't know where KJV is getting the "firstborn" in this passage

Some manuscripts include 'ton huion ton prwtotokon'.

-A8

1,445 posted on 12/14/2006 9:34:35 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: kosta50; The_Reader_David
The "reformers" falsified MANY scriptures. Prolly the worst was excising Sacrifice and oblation in Malachias and replacing it with Incense etc. Their reason for doing so is self-evident.

So, what is the point arguing with those who do not even realise their progenitors - who sired their sola scriptura ideology - were ones who changed scripture to match their ideology?

TRD made a good point. What is to be gained arguing with such a one?

Once you have tried to point out the facts and it is obvious your attempts are just reflexively gainsaid, shake the dust...:)

1,456 posted on 12/15/2006 2:43:16 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: kosta50; Blogger

"The Greek original uses the word uioV which means son, not firstborn, not fisrt-begotten, just son."

Yup.


1,459 posted on 12/15/2006 3:27:46 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kosta50
I am pinging our naive Greek speaker for quality control. Kolo your comments are welcome.
Sorry Kosta. No comment necessary. It was just fun to repost.
1,465 posted on 12/15/2006 4:53:11 AM PST by Blogger
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To: kosta50; Blogger; Kolokotronis

Kosta,

Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) and Textus Receptus (1550/1894) have "ton prototokon". Tischendorf 8th Ed. and Westcott/Hort, UBS4 variants do not.


1,563 posted on 12/15/2006 3:13:09 PM PST by annalex
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