[HarleyD]

This argument fails on two points. First, it is biblically incorrect. "Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." By virtue of not being cast into Hell without any further delay, God blesses the lost.

Well, in one aspect you're correct; God does shed His blessings equally on all mankind. I like Ecc 9. This doesn't give the Jews special treatment.

Don't you realize that before the very foundation of the world, before you had ever accepted Christ as Savior, God already loved you and had a plan for your life.

God loves His creation. God has a plan for everyone. However, as C.S. Lewis stated, there are some who would rather "reign in hell than serve in heaven". Not everyone wants to go to heaven as difficult as that is for us to accept. We would not want to go to heaven if it wasn't for the fact that God gave us that desire.

Second, your statement mischaracterizes what I have explicitly said for thread after thread (including in answers directed to you). The ones receiving the blessing will be regenerate Israel. They are the ones who will inherit the earthly as well as the heavenly promises God made to Abraham.

Then why do we think THIS Israel is being blessed by God?

Harley, in the book of Daniel, Daniel is instructed to seal up the words of his book until the time of the end.

Without getting into specific prophesies, Revelation 22 tells us to unseal the book for the "time is at hand". I don't wish to banish verses around because I'm not that familar with eschatology verses. The only thing I do know is that it's like Newton's 1st Law, "For every verse there is an equal and opposite verse."

HOGWASH! He loved us Harley, even while we were still rejecting Him. It may fit in your mind intellectually but it is very poor scripturally.

The only reason we love is because He first loved us. The only reason we have faith is because He has given it to us. The only reason we are His sheep is because He called us and He opened our ears to hear and gave sight to our blind eyes. There is nothing that we have that He has not given to us. And that isn't poor scripture. That is the gospel.

For now. You are corrrect. BUT ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.

All Israel is being saved. If by Israel you mean that you believe that someday God will open up the hearts and minds of the Jews, then yes, that is a possibility. However, it means that right now the heart of the Jews is hardened to the gospel. Those who believe in man's free will have a very difficult time explaining this dilemma.

You just contradicted the earlier statement. God doesn't bless those who have no faith in Him. Of course, He does.

No, I didn't contradict an earlier statement. I believe we've established the fact that I was wrong. Ecc 9 talks about "raining on the just and unjust". You are correct, God blesses everyone. What it does contradict is the fact that God blesses Israel a little more than everyone else.

Jer 33:25 This is what the LORD says: 'If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed laws of heaven and earth, 26 then I will reject the descendants of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The promise was to choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham. The one who rules over us is Christ. Those who believe in Christ have been grafted into Abraham linage. Those who do not believe in Christ are not part of Abraham.

[Blogger]

The promise was to choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham. The one who rules over us is Christ. Those who believe in Christ have been grafted into Abraham linage. Those who do not believe in Christ are not part of Abraham.
THAT Promise, indeed. But there are more promises that God made to Abraham than the greatest promise of the coming King. For example:
Genesis 13
14And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. 16And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. 17Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

For how long? Until your seed blows it? Until I change my mind? For 4000 years and then, well, then it belongs to whomever? No. FOREVER.

This promise is reitterated elsewhere to Abraham as an old man. Genesis 17 1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. 15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

So here, we have the land. Many nations. And a son. It is an everlasting covenant. For the descendants part, they must be circumcized. Funny, even today with much of Judaism being secular, most are still circumcized.

And again in Genesis 22:
15And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

And that is just to Abraham Himself. God makes similar promises to Abraham's various descendants. Some are conditional. Some are not. They could have inherited the fulness of the land forever during Joshua's time. God offered it to them and its a lot bigger than the borders it has possessed from Abraham's time til now. They disobeyed and did not meet the conditions of receiving it at that time. But other promises are unconditional and Prophecy after Prophecy speaks of Israel being drawn back into her land during the latter days and there being saved by the grace of God and finally knowing the Messiah who came to save them.

Why wasn't this preached? First, it was. Maybe not widespread, but it was. Second, most folks were illiterate and relied on the priesthood until the 1500s for their lessons. Many priests were illiterate themselves. And those who weren't often looked at prophecy with the methodology of an Augustine. It's all symbolic and allegorical. Except the return. That part's literal. Third, antisemitism. The Jews were expelled from Spain, France, England and Germany at varying times. They were hated throughout Poland, Russia, and the world. They were despised as Christ killers. It simply wasn't in the mental vocabulary of most of the church for hundreds and hundreds of years that indeed, God would have mercy on Israel one day as well and she would return to her land.

But around the time of the Great Awakening, the light began to come on. It was foreseen long before Israel became a nation again, that indeed, she would be brought back to the land. And she was. It has been foreseen that she will turn to Christ. And she will.

Even though not all reformed are dispensationalists. And not all dispensationalists are reformed. I see the two as quite compatible. Dispensational theology from a reformed perspective notes that the Sovereign God of the Universe controls the tides of history and will bring everything to His desired conclusion in precisely the way He laid it out in His Word. Not Israel's disbelief. Not millenia of hating the Jews. NOTHING will stop Him. And so, All Israel will be saved. And when they are, they will be His people and He their God and they will dwell safely in the land that He promised their fathers (stretching all the way to the Euphrates and the River of Egypt).

[Blogger]

The promise was to choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham. The one who rules over us is Christ. Those who believe in Christ have been grafted into Abraham linage. Those who do not believe in Christ are not part of Abraham.
THAT Promise, indeed. But there are more promises that God made to Abraham than the greatest promise of the coming King. For example:
Genesis 13
14And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. 16And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. 17Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

For how long? Until your seed blows it? Until I change my mind? For 4000 years and then, well, then it belongs to whomever? No. FOREVER.

This promise is reitterated elsewhere to Abraham as an old man. Genesis 17 1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. 15And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

So here, we have the land. Many nations. And a son. It is an everlasting covenant. For the descendants part, they must be circumcized. Funny, even today with much of Judaism being secular, most are still circumcized.

And again in Genesis 22:
15And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

And that is just to Abraham Himself. God makes similar promises to Abraham's various descendants. Some are conditional. Some are not. They could have inherited the fulness of the land forever during Joshua's time. God offered it to them and its a lot bigger than the borders it has possessed from Abraham's time til now. They disobeyed and did not meet the conditions of receiving it at that time. But other promises are unconditional and Prophecy after Prophecy speaks of Israel being drawn back into her land during the latter days and there being saved by the grace of God and finally knowing the Messiah who came to save them.

Why wasn't this preached? First, it was. Maybe not widespread, but it was. Second, most folks were illiterate and relied on the priesthood until the 1500s for their lessons. Many priests were illiterate themselves. And those who weren't often looked at prophecy with the methodology of an Augustine. It's all symbolic and allegorical. Except the return. That part's literal. Third, antisemitism. The Jews were expelled from Spain, France, England and Germany at varying times. They were hated throughout Poland, Russia, and the world. They were despised as Christ killers. It simply wasn't in the mental vocabulary of most of the church for hundreds and hundreds of years that indeed, God would have mercy on Israel one day as well and she would return to her land.

But around the time of the Great Awakening, the light began to come on. It was foreseen long before Israel became a nation again, that indeed, she would be brought back to the land. And she was. It has been foreseen that she will turn to Christ. And she will.

Even though not all reformed are dispensationalists. And not all dispensationalists are reformed. I see the two as quite compatible. Dispensational theology from a reformed perspective notes that the Sovereign God of the Universe controls the tides of history and will bring everything to His desired conclusion in precisely the way He laid it out in His Word. Not Israel's disbelief. Not millenia of hating the Jews. NOTHING will stop Him. And so, All Israel will be saved. And when they are, they will be His people and He their God and they will dwell safely in the land that He promised their fathers (stretching all the way to the Euphrates and the River of Egypt).