[Blogger]

For over 1900 years the church historically has held three differing views on eschatology; Post, Amil, and historical Premillennialism.
Historic pedigree means less than biblical accuracy, I'm sure you would agree.

While each view offers legitimate arguments on eschatology, they all agree on the fundamental principle that God blesses believers only. He does not bless, nor has He ever blessed, those who have no faith in Him.
This argument fails on two points. First, it is biblically incorrect. "Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." By virtue of not being cast into Hell without any further delay, God blesses the lost. Further, Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Harley. Don't you realize that before the very foundation of the world, before you had ever accepted Christ as Savior, God already loved you and had a plan for your life. His love for Israel is no different. He loves them with a holy love that is IN SPITE OF their current state of unbelief and will draw them en masse to Himself in the latter years. Second, your statement mischaracterizes what I have explicitly said for thread after thread (including in answers directed to you). The ones receiving the blessing will be regenerate Israel. They are the ones who will inherit the earthly as well as the heavenly promises God made to Abraham.

I remember reading The Late, Great Planet Earth in the early '70s.
If any of us had based our authority on what Hal Lindsey said, then you would have a point. Hal Lindsey, John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, did not create pre-tribulational doctrine. Those of us who believe it, believe it based upon Scripture.

The post-modern dispensationalist view isn't rooted in anything except loosely cobbled together verses following news events. It doesn't even parallel historical premillennial arguments.
Not that I agree with this statement, but "so?" Harley, in the book of Daniel, Daniel is instructed to seal up the words of his book until the time of the end. Now, we obviously have the book of Daniel and its contents, so what is meant? Knowledge shall increase. And, as the time grows closer, I believe Scripture teaches that Christians will gain more understanding as to what is occuring and how it fits into prophecy. Scripture tells us to watch. Watch what? The sky? Ignore history around us because someone might accuse us of newspaper exegesis? Jesus said to a Jewish audience "when you see these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up for your redemption draweth nigh." What things? Historical things. Tangible things. Things predicted in prophecy. The Book is alive Harley, and we are seeing prophecy fulfilled and set up to be fulfilled each day.

You asked, “What is the harm?” To me, people like Hal Lindsey, Scofield and Rylie are dangerous (and, yes, that is a correct word) although they probably don’t understand their error. They are Christians who are saying God loves people who reject Him. This is a dangerous position to be in and to be touting.
HOGWASH! He loved us Harley, even while we were still rejecting Him. It may fit in your mind intellectually but it is very poor scripturally. EVEN WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS. Israel is blinded in part, but has God ultimately cast them away? GOD FORBID! Says Paul. He has not. Why? Because He loves them and has a plan for their lives as well.

It was never the view of the church but it is now. This view has so crept into the church today that it permeates just about every facet of every church and has lead to the post-modern church we see today. Sin and God's wrath are minimized to a point that it is barely visible in but a few churches who dare to teach this truth. The Post-Modern will ask, "If God loves everyone, why doesn’t He love those in Africa who practice some kind of pagan ritual, a Hindu in India, a homosexual cleric?" The harm is the subtle change that has occurred; that God loves us in spite of our rejection of Him.
God chose us when we would not choose Him. God quickened us when we were dead to His truth. God will do the same for Israel.

God loves everyone. God loves Israel despite the rejection of His Son, therefore God must love all mankind for their rejection of His Son.
Now you are being ridiculous! Nothing has ever been implied. God does not love us for anything we have done. God certainly doesn't love us for the evil we have committed. God's love for us is U N C O N D I T I O N A L!!! I.E., He didn't look down and say "That Harley is such a swell person, I think I'll love him." No. He said, I love her IN SPITE OF HIMSELF!" He did the same for me.

After all, isn't the God of the Jews the same as the God of Christians? The answer is no!
For now. You are corrrect. BUT ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED. They will look on Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him. They will look at the wounds in His hands and say how did this happen? He will look to them and say "These are the wounds I got when I was in the house of my friends." Then they will worship Him, year after year, in Jerusalem. And they will be His people. And He will be their God.

God does not love the Jews any more than He loves the Hindus. God's wrath rests upon this world. Every time God graciously showers His blessings upon us, and we reject His mercies, we store up wrath and judgment against us.
You just contradicted the earlier statement. God doesn't bless those who have no faith in Him. Of course, He does. And when we reject Him, He grieves. For some, He chooses to intervene. Why? Because it pleases Him to do it.

God calls all men to repent and come to the Son. Those who spur God’s message will not find fellowship with Him, but His wrath will rest upon them.
Agreed.

The reformulation of Israel, is divinely inspired for whatever purpose, but it is not because God favors the Jews.
Listen to yourself! The reformulation of Israel is for some reason, and I don't know what it is, but by golly gum, it isn't because of the reason that dispensationalists say the Bible teaches!!!!!! Harley, read the Old Testament prophecies concerning Israel. Many of them are not conditional. Read the New Testament book of Revelation. The 12 tribes are mentioned by name as having a role as the servants of God in the end times. Read Romans 11 carefully and openly. God has not rejected Israel, but just like with us, He will show her mercy one day and draw her to Himself.

One only has to read the book of Judges to discovered what happened when Israel fell away.

Jeremiah 33 19 The word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: 20 "This is what the LORD says: 'If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time, 21 then my covenant with David my servant—and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me—can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne. 22 I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.' " 23 The word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: 24 "Have you not noticed that these people are saying, 'The LORD has rejected the two kingdoms he chose'? So they despise my people and no longer regard them as a nation. 25 This is what the LORD says: 'If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed laws of heaven and earth, 26 then I will reject the descendants of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. For I will restore their fortunes and have compassion on them.' "

[topcat54]

If any of us had based our authority on what Hal Lindsey said, then you would have a point. Hal Lindsey, John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, did not create pre-tribulational doctrine.

No, that was invented by JN Darby via the visions of Margaret MacDonald.

[HarleyD]

This argument fails on two points. First, it is biblically incorrect. "Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." By virtue of not being cast into Hell without any further delay, God blesses the lost.

Well, in one aspect you're correct; God does shed His blessings equally on all mankind. I like Ecc 9. This doesn't give the Jews special treatment.

Don't you realize that before the very foundation of the world, before you had ever accepted Christ as Savior, God already loved you and had a plan for your life.

God loves His creation. God has a plan for everyone. However, as C.S. Lewis stated, there are some who would rather "reign in hell than serve in heaven". Not everyone wants to go to heaven as difficult as that is for us to accept. We would not want to go to heaven if it wasn't for the fact that God gave us that desire.

Second, your statement mischaracterizes what I have explicitly said for thread after thread (including in answers directed to you). The ones receiving the blessing will be regenerate Israel. They are the ones who will inherit the earthly as well as the heavenly promises God made to Abraham.

Then why do we think THIS Israel is being blessed by God?

Harley, in the book of Daniel, Daniel is instructed to seal up the words of his book until the time of the end.

Without getting into specific prophesies, Revelation 22 tells us to unseal the book for the "time is at hand". I don't wish to banish verses around because I'm not that familar with eschatology verses. The only thing I do know is that it's like Newton's 1st Law, "For every verse there is an equal and opposite verse."

HOGWASH! He loved us Harley, even while we were still rejecting Him. It may fit in your mind intellectually but it is very poor scripturally.

The only reason we love is because He first loved us. The only reason we have faith is because He has given it to us. The only reason we are His sheep is because He called us and He opened our ears to hear and gave sight to our blind eyes. There is nothing that we have that He has not given to us. And that isn't poor scripture. That is the gospel.

For now. You are corrrect. BUT ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.

All Israel is being saved. If by Israel you mean that you believe that someday God will open up the hearts and minds of the Jews, then yes, that is a possibility. However, it means that right now the heart of the Jews is hardened to the gospel. Those who believe in man's free will have a very difficult time explaining this dilemma.

You just contradicted the earlier statement. God doesn't bless those who have no faith in Him. Of course, He does.

No, I didn't contradict an earlier statement. I believe we've established the fact that I was wrong. Ecc 9 talks about "raining on the just and unjust". You are correct, God blesses everyone. What it does contradict is the fact that God blesses Israel a little more than everyone else.

Jer 33:25 This is what the LORD says: 'If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed laws of heaven and earth, 26 then I will reject the descendants of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The promise was to choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham. The one who rules over us is Christ. Those who believe in Christ have been grafted into Abraham linage. Those who do not believe in Christ are not part of Abraham.