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He knew all of us before we were created physically

The souls are not pre-fabricated in advance. That is a pagan, even Gnostic belief.

Why were Adam and Eve not adopted through Jesus Christ like everyone else who is saved?

Because God apparently thought the world needed to wait a few thousand years before Christ showed up. In the meantime, He tried everything else, it seems, floods, giants, plagues, you name it.

Besides, I already told you I don't know where the Church is getting the idea that Christ went to Hades to rescue the OT "righteous," including Adam and Eve, nor do I know why Adam and Eve would have been "righteous." All this is nebulous, legendary and mythical to me — and certainly not biblical.

But it's part of our Tradition because this is mentioned in the Divine Liturgy which goes back at least 1,700 years if not longer, which means that the Church believed it as early as the 4th century, probably earlier.

The only hint is from +Peter saying that Christ preached to the dead (one can understand that as spiritually dead too), but that's a far cry from breaking down the doors of Hell, and yanking the OT righteous, including Adam and Eve.

Let's not forget that at His Transfiguration on Mount Tabor, Moses and Elijah were there...physically! That means Moses was not in hell...

Upon being born again, there is an emergence of a completely new being, not existent before (2 Cor. 5:17). I don't understand why you think it is a play on words.

There is no new being born. There is one and the same person who dropped his arrogance and pride and decided to obey God's will, to accept God's free offer and follow Him, as in "sell everything you have and follow Me." Clinging to God is a decision.

What??? He was DIRECTLY quoting God, AND it's in the Bible. It almost sounds like you are asserting the possibility that God never said this

It is in retrospect because Jeremiah is talking about his past, concluding that God set him apart. As far as directly quoting God, this is where we do not agree. I do not believe the Bible is a literal word of God. I believe it contains God's truths, along with legends and myths, embellished with human desires, culture and historical issues.

Yet, the Church made Paul "THE STAR" of the entire NT in terms of ink. Why would the Church do that, if their intent was just to send Paul to the corner in favor of other teachings?

The Church does not diminish +Paul. The Church interprets him differently than the Protestants or, for that matter, heretics (i.e. Marcion).

Do you really think that Paul was self-appointed? To me, that would make him a fraud

I have a strong suspicion that he did appoint himself, but that he honestly believed it was his destiny.

I can't seem to get past the first few lines of your posts because some are so glaringly contrary to Scripture...

FOREST KEEPER: He knew all of us before we were created physically

KOSTA: The souls are not pre-fabricated in advance. That is a pagan, even Gnostic belief.

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee" -- Jeremiah 1:5
"Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." -- Isaiah 43:7
"Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee" -- Isaiah 44:2

"Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?" -- Job 38:36

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." -- Psalms 139:13-16

"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" -- 1 Corinthians 4:7

The soul is not independent of its Creator. We are the sum and substance of that which the Creator ordained from before the foundation of the world.

FK: "Why were Adam and Eve not adopted through Jesus Christ like everyone else who is saved?"

Because God apparently thought the world needed to wait a few thousand years before Christ showed up. In the meantime, He tried everything else, it seems, floods, giants, plagues, you name it.

Are you saying that God only resolved to send Christ after He had FAILED at trying other things? How does Perfect fail? Jesus' sacrifice applied retroactively. God isn't subject to time, right? The OT righteous were saved by grace through faith, exactly the same way we were.

I agree that it isn't Biblical, which is why I don't believe it. I also don't KNOW as a fact that Adam and Eve were saved, I just "think" so. One small clue that Eve, at least, had repented is in Gen. 4:1-2. But, it may not be a slam dunk.

Let's not forget that at His Transfiguration on Mount Tabor, Moses and Elijah were there...physically! That means Moses was not in hell...

Excellent point.

FK: "Upon being born again, there is an emergence of a completely new being, not existent before (2 Cor. 5:17). I don't understand why you think it is a play on words."

But Jesus says it as plainly as it can be said. What is your interpretation of:

John 3:3 : In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

I can only assume you would say infant baptism. It never occurred to me before that you don't believe there is a very real change of a person at the point of belief. You all believe the Spirit temporarily indwells at infant baptism, and the rest is up to us, so there wouldn't be any need for a change in nature of the person from a slave to sin, to one of righteousness, etc. All the many verses that refer to this transformation just mean "something" else.

I do not believe the Bible is a literal word of God. I believe it contains God's truths, along with legends and myths, embellished with human desires, culture and historical issues.

If the Bible includes human desires in ADDITION to God's truths, then they must oppose each other since if they were the same they would be included as under God's truths. Therefore, you cannot believe the Bible is inerrant. In addition, if human desires are added, then God should prove the Bible to be a document with lies:

Prov 30:5-6 : 5 "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

I for one do not believe the Bible is a document with lies. :)

I have a strong suspicion that [Paul] did appoint himself, but that he honestly believed it was his destiny.

If Paul did appoint himself, then he could not have been sent. That means he was not one of God's chosen Apostles, and you should discredit absolutely everything he ever said that was not officially sanctioned by the consensus patrum. And, if Paul WAS a fraud, then what does that say about the Church in the areas it agrees with him, based on his writings?