[Dr. Eckleburg]

I can't seem to get past the first few lines of your posts because some are so glaringly contrary to Scripture...

FOREST KEEPER: He knew all of us before we were created physically

KOSTA: The souls are not pre-fabricated in advance. That is a pagan, even Gnostic belief.

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee" -- Jeremiah 1:5

"Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." -- Isaiah 43:7

"Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee" -- Isaiah 44:2

"Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?" -- Job 38:36

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." -- Psalms 139:13-16

"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" -- 1 Corinthians 4:7

The soul is not independent of its Creator. We are the sum and substance of that which the Creator ordained from before the foundation of the world.

[1000 silverlings]

The Jews believed, maybe still do, all souls were created before the beginning of the world, so it’s not a pagan belief.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the excellent passages and for sharing your insights!

Seems to me that many people anthropomorphize God by thinking of Him as existing within a timeline (past, present, future) like we sense time passing.

It would be irrational for such a one to believe that God has never not known us.

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isa 46:9-10

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. - Hebrews 4:3

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. - Rev 13:8

I assert that the word "timelessness" should be used when speaking of the Creator's perspective versus the creature's perspective. And my spiritual understanding is that predestination and free will are both true, i.e. they are not mutually exclusive.

[Forest Keeper]

The soul is not independent of its Creator. We are the sum and substance of that which the Creator ordained from before the foundation of the world.

AMEN! Excellent post. The scripture says what it says.