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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Quix
I should have given a "for instance." Here's one: I do not recall that the "if/then" form was ever used in any of the parables spoken by Jesus. I could be wrong; if you find any of Jesus' direct sayings that fit that model, please let me know.

Sure I can. When Christ tells the rich man to sell everything and follow Him. In Beatitudes, when he says "blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy...blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God...blessed are the peace makers for they shall be called the Sons of God...or when he says to the disciples that we can come to the Father only through Him...all of those are conditional statements.

In 1 Pet 2:20 the author says "if you do the right thing...and suffer for it [then] you will find favor or grace (charis) with God."

All these are strictly conditional statements. If you believe, [then] you will be saved. God makes a free offer of a conditional relationship.

A point of clarification: We were discussing complementarities, which take the form of "either/or," "yes/no," "black/white," "0/1." "If/then" does not have that form. "If/then" sets up a causal relationship. Complementarities generally don't do that.

But I don't see any complementariness in these statements, betty boop. They are mutually exclusive. They are either-or statements. as such they are "switches" leading to conditional (if-then) events.

Something that is complementary is something that embellishes. These statements eliminate. Complementary statements build on; mutually exclusive ones don't.

Going back to your wave/particle example — the "particle" doesn't exist. And the "wave" itself is an artefact as well. We have two models that are useful: one treats radiant energy as a wave (if diffraction effects are important) or as particle (if the position is needed).

The two models provide different data and are mutually exclusive, not complimentary! A particle model will tell me where in the field of view can I expect an image to form. A wave model will tell me what that image will look like.

The so-called "spot-diagrams" used in optics are particle model graphic data that can approximate the size and shape of an image but not the diffraction effects, resolution, etc. In fact, they give completely different (and even misleading) information.

If you attach a dot to a spinning wheel and track the dot's position, you get a periodic sinus (i.e. sine of an angle) "wave" graph. It's all a product of our mathematical models, and not how things really are. Energy waves are not "wheels" but bursts. We use their periodicity to represent these bursts over time as sinus graphs.

We can never know how things really are – and that is (paradoxically) the only certainty we do know.

Thanks so much for writing, kosta!

Same to you, dear betty boop.

13,794 posted on 05/01/2007 10:30:39 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Another impressive kosta post. Thx.


13,798 posted on 05/01/2007 11:22:50 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: kosta50; betty boop
Thank you for keeping me in the loop on this sidebar!

We can never know how things really are – and that is (paradoxically) the only certainty we do know.

Precisely so. That is part of the "observer problem."

On the "if/then"s - I strongly agree with betty boop that they are causal per se, i.e. cause/effect.

Complementarities are more akin to the two sides of a coin. It's not a coin without both sides.

However, if it comes up "heads" when tossed, you might win something in which case the observed event is causal though heads/tails remain complementary.

13,815 posted on 05/02/2007 7:46:58 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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