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To: kosta50; jo kus; annalex; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine
Col 2:9-10 : 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

So, according to this the fullness of the Deity lives in us too. Does that make us Gods?

No, of course not. "Fullness in Christ" is the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. That is to human capacity. No essence is transferred or shared.

It just so happens that this one is (along with Ephesians written soon afterwards) is one of those disputed Pauline books as regards to authorship. Unlike his earlier works, its character is doctrinally critical of Gnostics and their distaste for the body. Hence reference to bodies.

I'm not aware of any credible dispute as to the authorship of these books. Paul went where he went, and then he wrote to them according to their needs, and ours.

Collosians 1:15 actually says "He is the image (Gr. eikwn, eikon) of the invisible God" in an attempt to associate visible body with something godly (since the Gnostics considered the body as evil), for obvious reasons. But he falls short of calling Him God. We say that a priest an icon of Christ, but no one thinks that he is Christ!

I think "image" has survived as a good description here. An "image" is a visible perception. "God" is not normally visible, but in Christ He is. That's all he meant. Paul recognizes Christ as God over and over again in scriptures. I've given you some of many verses.

The Greek text says "being in the form [morfwn, morphon] of God, not "the very nature of God!" The word for nature/essence is ουσία (ousia). The word morphon comes from morphe which means form/shape.

"Nature" is a perfectly good translation (or use) of "morphe" (Strong's 3444). It also includes your interpretation, more prominently. Trying to show that Paul did not recognize Christ as God is a very uphill struggle, imho :). That's because, first one must assert that Paul was not a Christian, that he was not born again.

Well, in context everything points to an unequal "single essence." Christ also is quoted as saying to the disciples not to worry and not to trouble their hearts, for they should be happy He is going to the Father. But, then, in the Gethsemane He is troubled and afraid.

Do you think that is contradictory? I don't. The disciples HAD no worries, comparatively, but when Jesus went to Gethsemane, we saw His human nature.

13,667 posted on 04/28/2007 12:59:06 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper

“No essence is transferred or shared.”

AH! You are paying attention! :)


13,670 posted on 04/28/2007 4:15:11 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus; annalex; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine
No, of course not. "Fullness in Christ" is the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. That is to human capacity. No essence is transferred or shared

I don't know where you are getting the Spirit in Col 2:9-10, and yes the essence is implied by fullness of deity in flesh and fullness of Christ in us. At least that's how it comes across.

I'm not aware of any credible dispute as to the authorship of these books

You need to read more about the Bible.

I think "image" has survived as a good description here. An "image" is a visible perception. "God" is not normally visible, but in Christ He is. That's all he meant

But, see, we are an "image" of God (whose "likeness" we lost). That does not make us divine.

"Nature" is a perfectly good translation (or use) of "morphe" (Strong's 3444)

I disagree. Morphe is the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; external appearance. That is not our nature or essence (Gr. ousia)

That's because, first one must assert that Paul was not a Christian, that he was not born again

Paul never said he was a Christian. I have no doubt that when he was converted, whether the way he claims or not — it doesn't matter, he did not think he was "switching" to a new religion. He considered himself a Jew, and his faith, whether with or without Christ was always Jewish. The fact that he treated Gentiles as 'second class citizens" as far as Mosaic Law was concerned, circumcision and kosher habits does not mean he considered the faith to something new and not Jewish.

Christianity began to separate from Judaism when its members no longer constituted mostly Jews, but mostly Gentiles, towards the end of the 1st century, but not during Paul's lifetime. By the end of the 1st century, Christianity was de facto as well as de jure (Jamnia) a different religion.

The disciples HAD no worries, comparatively, but when Jesus went to Gethsemane, we saw His human nature

Christ is a perfect fusion but not confusion of two perfect nature's, one divine, the other human. What that means is that their relationship is in perfect harmony. Christ may have felt human needs and desires but He never did anything to counter His divine nature. The two were are in perfect harmony. Otherwise, Christ would not be perfect.

So, no, at not time was Christ not aware of His human or divine nature. If by "His human nature" you mean doubt, that would be an indication that He was not perfect and did not believe in Himself, but fell for the temptation of doubt.

13,723 posted on 04/29/2007 9:24:23 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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