Very much so. They express the same reality of conquering sin and gaining eternal life for the individual.
In that case, why do you suppose the Bible uses each term distinctly very often? Is the same word used for both in Greek? I notice again that you focus salvation and justification on the deeds of men, rather than God.
The infant has no personal sin. Baptism through the infusion of grace removes the sin of Adam from him. At this point his consciousness does not play at all. Once Fred grows up, being a free agent, he may sin, and should he be fortunate enough to ask, the Church will give him grace to overcome it till, as he is sanctified, he does not sin any longer.
The Church will give him grace. Men will give him grace. I am surprised because with my experience, this really shouldn't surprise me. :) I suppose I am taken aback a little because I have not heard it in these terms before, but it is consistent.
FK: "I disagree that Christ sent anyone "as Himself"."
Your disagreement is with scripture then: "As the Father hath sent me, I also send you" (John 20:21). Plain text.
As you know, I LOVE plain text. :) The strictest sense of this quote would be that "God sent God, as God, and now He sends the Apostles, as God". This is untenable to either of us. So, what is the point of the quote? I contend that it is that Jesus was "sent" under complete and total authority. Under this same authority, Jesus sent His disciples into the world. That is "HOW" they were sent, a synonym for "as".
Well, because the bible tells us that it is an "if-then" relationship. Of course, in order to choose to obey God one must believe in Him, so faith is required, but faith is only the first step.
The Church will give him grace. Men will give him grace
Not really, FK, and I think you know that but just want to play "devil's advocate". :) Grace comes from and through sacraments (Holy Spirit). We (and I mean Catholic/Orthodox) never give the power of grace to men. We trust and believe with all our hearts that the sacraments are true and their effect comes from the Holy Spirit, not men.
I think what Alex is saying is that a child will receive spiritual nourishment's in the Church, made possible through grace in sacraments received, liturgical life or prayer and worship and bible study.
It is more likely in other words that this child will lead a more Christian life than soemone who grew up in the streets and never attend a church.
As for baptism cleansing us from the "original sin," the (Roman) Catholic Church is actually 'modifying' its position and bringing it closer to the teaching of the Orthodox Church, which has remained unchanged from the beginning: that Baptism simply brings a child into the Church (adoption).
The Pope recently sent a letter, just short of an official Epistle, basically committing the Limbo to oblivion, and adopting the same teaching as the Orthodox have, that unbaptized babies who die before being baptized can be saved by God's mercy alone, as they have not committed any sin. It is a hope and trust in merciful and just God, but it is not a certain knowledge, because the Scripture is silent on that issue.
I contend that it is that Jesus was "sent" under complete and total authority. Under this same authority, Jesus sent His disciples into the world.
I think Alex is correct. That is a clear indication that God commissioned Apostles as clergy, not everyone. In Revelation, the Apostles serve as judges (of the 12 tribes of Israel...ooops, but that's another story...), and elsewhere in the NT it is made clear that not all are Apostles, and teachers, but that the Church has a hierarchy.
What amazes me is that the Protestants accept pastorship of ordinary men, but refuse the pastorship of those who succeeded Apostles in direct line of succession. I think it's just anti-Romish bias.
By different authors? Justification means acquital of fault, and salvation means defeat of death. Not quite the same but for the purposes of our discussion the distinction is not significant.
The Church will give him grace. Men will give him grace. I am surprised
Well, the Church will give grace because she is send by Christ. The Church is the transmission belt.
The strictest sense of this quote would be that "God sent God, as God, and now He sends the Apostles, as God".
Ah. Don't tell me another time your mariophobia has no deleterious effects. God did not send Christ as God. God sent Christ as Man. Christ as God could not be sent anywhere He is God now and forever and outside of time. Now, Christ, in this verse, plain text, sends the Church likewise, like men. I know it is shocking, but all I do is read what is written.