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To: kosta50; betty boop; hosepipe; Kolokotronis
I believe it but it is wholly irrational.

Quod erat demonstrandum:

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - 1 Cor 1:22-25


13,473 posted on 04/24/2007 1:01:27 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; hosepipe; Kolokotronis

Well, is it rational or not? Even the Christians need a “sign.” They claim the presence of the Holy Spirit. The modern-day version of Gnosticism “I know, and you don’t.”


13,477 posted on 04/24/2007 1:20:44 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Alamo-Girl; kosta50; betty boop; hosepipe

From Homily IV one 1 Corinthians of +John Chrysostomos:

“Ver. 22-24. Next, to shew the power of the Cross, he saith, “For Jews ask for signs and Greeks seek after wisdom: but we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumbling-block, and unto Greeks foolishness; but unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the Power of God, and the Wisdom of God.”

Vast is the import of the things here spoken! For he means to say how by contraries God hath overcome, and how the Gospel is not of man. What he saith is something of this sort. When, saith he, we say unto the Jews, Believe; they answer, Raise the dead, Heal the demoniacs, Shew unto us signs. But instead thereof what say we? That He was crucified, and died, who is preached. And this is enough, not only to fail in drawing over the unwilling, but even to drive away those even who are willing. Nevertheless, it drives not away, but attracts and holds fast and overcomes.Again; the Greeks demand of us a rhetorical style, and the acuteness of sophistry. But weakness, this in the case of the Greeks is foolishness. Wherefore, when we not only fail in producing what they demand, but also produce the very opposites of their demand; (for the Cross has not merry no appearance of being a sign sought out by reasoning, but even the very annihilation of a sign;-is not merely deemed no proof of power, but a conviction of weakness;-not merry no display of wisdom, but a suggestion of foolishness;)-when therefore they who seek for signs and wisdom not only receive not the things which they ask, but even hear the contrary to what they desire, and then by means of contraries are persuaded;-how is not the power of Him that is preached unspeakable? As if to some one tempest-tost and longing for a haven, you were to shew not a haven but another wilder portion of the sea, and so could make him follow with thankfulness? Or as if a physician could attract to himself the man that was wounded and in need of remedies, by promising to cure him not with drugs, but with burning of him again! For this is a result of great power indeed. So also the Apostles prevailed, not simply without a sign, but even by a thing which seemed contrary to all the known signs. Which thing also Christ did in the case of the blind man. For when He would heal him, He took away the blindness by a thing that increased it: i. e. He put on clay. (St. John chapter 9, verse 6) As then by means of clay He healed the blind man, so also by means of the Cross He brought the world to Himself. That certainly was adding an offence, not taking an offence away. So did He also in creation, working out things by their contraries. With sand, for instance, He walled in the sea, having made the weak a bridle to the strong. He placed the earth upon water, having taken order that the heavy and the dense should be borne on the soft and fluid. By means of the prophets again with a small piece of wood He raised up iron from the bottom. (2 Kings chapter 6, verse 5-2 Kings chapter 6, verse 7) In like manner also with the Cross He hath drawn the world to Himself. For as the water heareth up the earth, so also the Cross beareth up the world. You see now, it is proof of great power and wisdom, to convince by means of the things which tell directly against us. Thus the Cross seems to be matter of offence; and yet far from offending, it even attracts.

[6.] Ver. 25. All these things, therefore, Paul bearing in mind, and being struck with astonishment, said that “the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men;” in relation to the Cross, speaking of a folly and weakness, not real but apparent. For he is answering with respect unto the other party’s opinion. For that which philosophers were not able by means of reasoning to accomplish, this, what seemed to be foolishness did excellently well. Which then is the wiser, he that persuadeth the many, or he that persuadeth few, or rather no one? He who persuadeth concerning the greatest points, or about matters which are nothing? (mhden ontwn Reg. ms. mh deontwn Bened.) What great labors did Plato endure, and his followers, discoursing to us about a line, and an angle, and a point, and about numbers even and odd, and equal unto one another and unequal, and such-like spiderwebs; (for indeed those webs are not more useless to man’s life than were these subjects;) and without doing good to any one great or small by their means, so he made an end of his life. How greatly did he labor, endeavoring to show that the soul was immortal! and even as he came he went away, having spoken nothing with certainty, nor persuaded any hearer. But the Cross wrought persuasion by means of unlearned men; yea it persuaded even the whole world: and not about common things, but in discourse of God, and the godliness which is according to truth, and the evangelical way of life, and the judgment of the things to come. And of all men it made philosophers: the very rustics, the utterly unlearned. Behold how “the foolishness of God is wiser than men,” and “the weakness stronger?” How “stronger?” Because it overran the whole world, and took all by main force, and while men were endeavoring by ten thousands to extinguish the name of the Crucified, the contrary came to pass: that flourished and increased more and more, but they perished and wasted away; and the living at war with the dead, had no power. So that when the Greek calls me foolish, he shows himself above measure foolish: since I who am esteemed by him a fool, evidently appear wiser than the wise. When he calls me weak, then he shows himself to be weaken For the noble things which publicans and fishermen were able to effect by the grace of God, these, philosophers, and rhetoricians, and tyrants, and in short the whole world, running ten thousand ways here and there, could not even form a notion of. For what did not the Cross introduce? The doctrine concerning the Immortality of the Soul; that concerning the Resurrection of the Body; that concerning the contempt of things present; that concerning the desire of things future. Yea, angels it hath made of men, and all, every where, practice self-denial, (filosofousi) and show forth all kinds of fortitude.”

Magnificent, isn’t it! :)


13,481 posted on 04/24/2007 1:31:38 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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