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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; marron; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine; metmom; Quix
In the first place, we ought not make the mistake of identifying the God of Job with the Logos

Without trying to point fingers, sufficie it to say that Alamo-Girl suggested that in the post I was responding to.

Your second clause sets up an unfortunate (to my mind) complementarity of the relationship between God and the satan. The statement seems to have Zoroastrian and Manichaean resonances

No, in pre-Babylonian Judaism, Satan (actually the satan, the accuser) is presented as God's loyal celestial son (angle) with no power of his own, but empowered by God. In old Judaism, punishments were meted out by God Himself or by angels acting on His behalf. In pre-Babylonian Judaism, God is the author of all that befalls people, whether good or evil.

This, of course, clashes with our Christian mindset, but that's why we must read the OT through a Christian lens and dismiss those events that are clearly evil but attributed to God in the OT.

God and satan cannot meet as "equals" on the same "ontological playing field."

I hope you are not suggesting I implied this! Angels are creatures. Created and uncreated natures are immiscible.

[why did Jesus need to be led by the Spirit into the wilderness?] Maybe He was then just getting His "sea-legs" (so to speak), and needed guidance and support

My point was that His divine nature never separated form His human nature and that His human nature seamlessly obeyed and was in harmony with His divine nature.

The Bible implies that Jesus did not have the Spirit until baptism and then it says that Jesus had to have Spirit guide Him. As God, he was never without the Father and without the Spirit, for they are One. The Bible doesn't treat them as such.

13,300 posted on 04/22/2007 9:17:53 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; betty boop; hosepipe; marron; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine; metmom; Quix
The Bible implies that Jesus did not have the Spirit until baptism and then it says that Jesus had to have Spirit guide Him. As God, he was never without the Father and without the Spirit, for they are One. The Bible doesn't treat them as such.

I disagree:

Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not [of it].

But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among [their] kinsfolk and acquaintance. And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. – Luke 2:41-50


13,316 posted on 04/22/2007 10:14:57 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: kosta50; Alamo-Girl
The teachings of Derek Prince work something along the lines you are discussing, i.e., that there is “the filling of the Holy Spirit,” at regeneration (conviction of sin, repentance, coming to belief), and then “the baptism in the Holy Spirit” at some later point, with Power from on High (the giftings and workings of/for Elohim, see 1 Corinthians 12-14).

I personally experienced this as one event, though I am still "growing up into Him Who Is My Head," but obviously we are all uniquely made, and God our Creator, who knew us before forming us in the womb, knows just what each one of us requires to come to and walk by faith, and that is His desire, "that we know Him, and Jesus Christ Whom He has sent, for this is Eternal Life." Gifts can be given, but until they are received they are of no consequence. God, the Father of Lights, is "the giver of every good and perfect gift," as well as the One who "gives sight to the blind," and "opens ears."

Love to you both in Christ Our King.

13,322 posted on 04/23/2007 2:21:12 AM PDT by .30Carbine (We need a downpour: Come like the rain!)
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