[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL! I do think we ought to form a team as marron suggests.

I'm glad you raised Justin Martyr, his description of his studies in philosophy are quite revealing, as is his manner of conversion.

Personally, I do not see Paul as an enemy of Greek philosophy per se - but rather an enemy of Greek idolatry.

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, [Ye] men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. - Acts 17:22-28

The problem with many Christians appreciating the Greek philosophers, IMHO, is that myths are the language of philosophy. And over the course of time, sadly, characters of the myths become more real or relevant to some than the "moral of the story."

Parables are like tiny "myths" which Christ spoke to hide Truth in plain sight. The characters were not, however, central to Christ's parables:

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. - Matt 13:10-13

I find the whole business rather strange because most of us are able to read Shakespeare and find a theme without being "taken in" by the characters. Conversely, people flock to their favorite television programs - suspending reality so completely - that they sometimes seem to forget what they are viewing is not real.

At any rate, no matter how one views the importance of the Greek philosophers, I am very sure that everything is unfolding according to God's will.

[Kolokotronis]

" At any rate, no matter how one views the importance of the Greek philosophers, I am very sure that everything is unfolding according to God's will." The Greek Fathers certainly used the language of Greek philosophy and to an extent the way the philosophers thought, but they soundly rejected the way those philosophers arrived at their conclusions or what they meant by the language they used. For us to recognize that Greek philosophy formed part of the preparation of the seedbed in which Christianity took root is a good thing. It is a bad thing to believe that these pagan philosophers in any particular manner had come to an understanding of God any greater than that of other pagan peoples. The temptation to do this has been particularly powerful in the West since the days of Aquinas. Aquinas in his disputations with the Mohammedan philosophers relied heavily on Aristotle, which of course made great sense as those most Andalusian thinkers were heavily influenced by Aristotelian thought. Personally, I am convinced that Aquinas was not by any means an Aristotelian, but the language and methods of Aristotle formed a common context for the discussions. Unfortunately his successors seem to have adopted Aristotelianism not merely as a framework within which to discuss Christianity with pagans, but rather accepted it as the way to explain God to themselves and other Christians. This manner of thinking about theology, scholasticism, had a profound effect on Western religious thought and compounded the already existing differences between Eastern and Western Christianity. The effects of this are seen to this day. Indeed, just yesterday a younger Latin on FR responded to a comment I made by speaking of "accidents" and "substances" a propos of the translation of a certain word in the Nicene Creed.

At any rate, we must remember that we are the new Israel, not the new Athens.