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To: annalex; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; Forest Keeper; Quix; HarleyD
"The Greek verb that D-R has "delivered" is "klomenon" (with an Omega). I cannot find it in Liddell-Scott in the time I currently have, and don't know it from memory. Jerome has it translated "tradetur", delivered or betrayed."

You're good! Here is the phrase in the mother tongue:

"Λάβετε, φάγετε, τοῦτό μού ἐστι τὸ σῶμα, τὸ ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν κλώμενον, εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν."

Κλώμενον means delivered up or handed over in the sense of as to an enemy. Here's an interesting little bit. Notice the difference, Alex, between "σομα" (body) here and "σαρχ" (flesh) elsewhere.

11,881 posted on 03/23/2007 3:30:14 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; Forest Keeper; Quix; HarleyD
You're good!

It is Jerome who is good. It is not the first time I notice that Young's is not of great help.

the difference, Alex, between "soma" (body) here and "sarx" (flesh) elsewhere.

Yes. In the synoptic gospels and accordingly in St. Paul the Eucharist is actually happening (mutatis mutandis), and of course it is the entire Christ that is present, body, blood, soul, and divinity, in the eucharistic elements. In John 6, however, the dispute is on the Jews' turf so to say: their problem is with "sarx" (John 6:51-53); had Christ told them anything less startling than that, the opportunity to clarify would have been lost, -- and Christ did not want it to be lost (v 61/62).

11,885 posted on 03/23/2007 3:48:54 PM PDT by annalex
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To: Kolokotronis; annalex; Mad Dawg; Forest Keeper; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
"Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you (1 Cor 11:24)"? "ËÜâåôå, öÜãåôå, ôïῦôü ìïý ἐóôé ôὸ óῶìá, ôὸ ὑðὲñ ἡìῶí êëþìåíïí, åἰò ἄöåóéí ἁìáñôéῶí." This does not look like the Greek for of the above scripture. This is from my bible: "kai eucaristhsav eklasen kai eipen, touto mou estin to swma to uper umwn: touto poieite eiv thn emhn anamnhsin". Which is the correct Greek? My question went to the use of the future tense in the above questioned English scripture. As to "hocus pocus" I invented that incantation when I brought home my first report card and tried to change the Ds into Bs before the school bus reached my home. It was about the same time I invented the "dog ate my homework" excuse going to school.
11,909 posted on 03/23/2007 8:34:51 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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