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Looks like you will have to explain the discrepancy, and also with Rom 2:13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified." The idea is that faith is required, and so are works, but neither is sufficient by itself.

What discrepancy? :) I think the difference in our views is in the separateness of the concepts of faith and works. I think you all see them as very different things. Over here there is faith, and way over there are works. One key point is that you believe it is possible to have true faith, but to not do works, thus forfeiting salvation or theosis. We do not think that is possible. We see works as an included component of true faith.

In some of Paul's writings, he focuses on the main element, faith. Here it is understood that he means true faith and does not break it down. In some of James' writings, he does break it down and distinguishes between true and false, or claimed faith. James says that without works a claimed faith is false. We agree.

While Paul also speaks of the importance of doing works, I see Rom. 2:13 as an admonition to the Jews. He who keeps the law perfectly will be justified. I think Paul is trying to show them that no one can do that. This fits in with Paul's central message that faith is the absolute key to salvation.

While Paul also speaks of the importance of doing works, I see Rom. 2:13 as an admonition to the Jews. He who keeps the law perfectly will be justified. I think Paul is trying to show them that no one can do that. This fits in with Paul's central message that faith is the absolute key to salvation

But we don't believe perfectly either! How much of faith is required? How perfect a faith is needed? Why would 'perfect keeping of the law' be a requirement for salvation and not 'perfect faith?' How can one measure his faith? +James is saying by works.

Obviously, it's the intent that counts and not perfection. The poor old woman who gives her last two copper coins to the synagogue is giving everything she has to God. A rich Pharisee who tithes 10% of his wealth is not, although his sum may be greater. Who is justified in the eyes of God? We all believe it's the woman for giving everytyhing to God. I am sure both the woman and the Pharisee have faith, but that's not all that is required.

In some of Paul's writings, he focuses on the main element, faith. Here it is understood that he means true faith and does not break it down. In some of James' writings, he does break it down and distinguishes between true and false, or claimed faith. James says that without works a claimed faith is false. We agree.

When Paul speaks of works, the context is always there to point to a particular kind of work, -- work for reward or out of obligation, but when James speaks of faith, he does not make any distinction between true and claimed faith. The scripture supports the historical Church's view, as usual. Indeed there is such a thing as claimed but false faith, referred to elsewhere in the scripture, but there is no indication that true faith is not grown from work just as good works grow, in turn, from faith.