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To: annalex
FK: "Faith is what is salvific, works are a result of faith."

Based on what scripture? "by works a man is justified; and not by faith only" (James 2).

Faith is salvific based on Eph. 2:8-9, among others. ... This is also in James 2:

James 2:14 : 14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

He is talking about a claimed faith that is not true. Works WILL come from true faith, and notice in v. 14 that faith comes first. Works without faith are rags and faith without works is not true. Faith and works are not being put on the same level, or as being independent of each other. See also from James:

James 2:18 : But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

James clearly says that works are an evidence of faith, not a partner in the salvation equation. Here is the same idea:

Matt 7:15-18 : 15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Good or bad trees refer to people who do or do not have true faith. The fruit (works) is one way we can tell the difference. The tree always comes before the fruit.

11,302 posted on 03/14/2007 4:27:58 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; annalex
Alex: Based on what scripture? "by works a man is justified; and not by faith only" (James 2)

FK: Faith is salvific based on Eph. 2:8-9, among others. ... This is also in James 2:

Looks like you will have to explain the discrepancy, and also with Rom 2:13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified."

The idea is that faith is required, and so are works, but neither is sufficient by itself.

11,308 posted on 03/14/2007 8:19:31 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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