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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg
FK: "The other way to look at it is that the lost are purely slaves to sin."

Or that the 'saved' are slaves to righteousness. Either we are free or we are slaves, but we can't be both.

Well, that's why I have been making a distinction. But if you want a bottom line, then the lost are slaves to sin and the saved are slaves to righteousness, just as the Bible says. If a critic wants to now say that this makes everyone robots (and God the author of evil), then his argument is with scripture.

We do not believe in "free will" in the sense that it can trump God's will. My understanding of your theology is that man's will does indeed trump God's, given that you say God's will is that all men be saved. This has God willingly transferring His sovereignty away from Himself to place it in fallible man. The same thing happens with the claimed authority of the Church. Via this transfer, God must decrease so that man can increase. That just isn't Biblical.

11,137 posted on 02/26/2007 9:42:08 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
… the lost are slaves to sin and the saved are slaves to righteousness, just as the Bible says. If a critic wants to now say that this makes everyone robots (and God the author of evil), then his argument is with scripture.

If your interpretation of scripture ends up with robots or slaves, you've gone off wrong. If free will is an illusion, then all experience is an illusion and we might as well debate our dreams.

That one can read scripture and come to this conclusion should amaze us and it emphasizes that anything is possible with sola scriptura as the foundation.

11,139 posted on 02/27/2007 12:39:38 AM PST by D-fendr
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To: Forest Keeper

I'm sorry, I should make sure first. Are you of the view that free will is a myth or an illusion?


11,140 posted on 02/27/2007 12:42:06 AM PST by D-fendr
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To: Forest Keeper
But if you want a bottom line, then the lost are slaves to sin and the saved are slaves to righteousness, just as the Bible says

Christ never taught that. There is no love in slavery. People are captivated with pleasure. They keep coming back for more. That holds true for the 'saved' and 'unsaved.'

My understanding of your theology is that ... God's will is that all men be saved.

The Bible says it plainly that it is God our Savior "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." [1Tim 2:4]

Obviously He doesn't compel them, and that is His choice.

11,143 posted on 02/27/2007 5:48:35 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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