All of the goats. The meaning of the term 'goat' in the Judaic biblical sense is associated with demons,.
I said "some" because not all goats are pretenders. Some are overt satan worshipers, atheists, Democrats, etc. They do not claim faith in the first place.
In other words, some are 'goats,' devil's angels, those who, like Faustus, sold their soul to the devil the way Esau sold his birthright. .... They turned to the devil. They are not saved because they are the unrepentant.
I just equate the goats to the reprobate. They are forever slaves to sin and do turn to satan.
You are mixing apples and oranges, FK. You cannot change your corruption (aging), but your soul doesn't 'age.' The only choice in your heart is to cling to God or not.
I thought you were speaking of free will choices generally. I agree with you that the choice to accept Christ can come at any time during life. That is, at any time for the elect.
God does not impose, FK.
Amen to Dr. E's answer. Lord, when it comes to me, impose your socks off! :)
FK: "I keep getting the impression that you all use the Father-child Biblical analogy to refer to parents with adult children."
How about just adults?. Is your own flavor of Protestantism not based on adult baptism? When you can accept Christ, and you can recite the sinners prayer?
Southern Baptists follow a believer's baptism, not an "adult" baptism. It is commonplace for children under 10 to be baptized in our church.
God creates us rational and capable of being moral beings. Through our faculty of reason and a heart that forgives and loves. You have this idea that we are just a bunch of toddlers running around in God's playpen like a bunch of little morons.
Are you kidding? Compared to God we don't even rate to the level of morons. We are less than toddlers. Sometimes, toddlers do what they're told. By ourselves, we never do. The objective suicidal stupidity of the sinner knows no bounds. How many OT stories have you read and just wound up shaking your head? There was God, right in front of them telling them what to do, and they blew it. Then they blew it again and again and again. How is that possible? Are we really truly smarter than they were? NO WAY. We are the same. If it wasn't so sad it would really be funny. This is why I think the Biblical comparison between parent-child only works to the extent the child is completely helpless. Without God, WE are completely helpless.
God expects us to be able to forgive before we can ask for forgiveness. God expects us to be pure in heart, merciful and humble, to understand that loving those who love you is no feat but rather loving those who persecute you is. Are children like that? No they are not.
God does not apply adult standards to our small children. But as to being pure in heart, being merciful and forgiving, and loving when it is difficult, I absolutely see evidence of this in children. It's not all the time, but I've seen plenty of it. You have too. It's a miracle of God when I see them doing it and then remember myself at that age not resembling anything like that. God wasn't in my life then. But a child with God in her life can do amazing things.
The difference isn't the age of the person, the difference is whether the person has Christ, at whatever age. Without Christ we, comparatively, are helpless children even as "adults".
Democrats...you must be related to Pat Roberston...Murdoch...? :)
I just equate the goats to the reprobate. They are forever slaves to sin and do turn to satan.
According to Reformed theology they do turn to satan because they have no other choice. They were predestined by this selective deity before all ages to not be able to turn to him.
And if this deity (because it's not the God I know) is not partial, as you say, it must have made the choices at random! So now we have an enee, menee, minee, mo approach to salvation...
Amen to Dr. E's answer. Lord, when it comes to me, impose your socks off! :)
Cute. But what Dr E tried to prove is doubtful and unbiblical. She conveniently left out v. 5 that changes the meaning of her whole "imposition" interpretation. And v. 2 of the same Psalm makes it clear that all men come to God. Read it!
Southern Baptists follow a believer's baptism, not an "adult" baptism. It is commonplace for children under 10 to be baptized in our church
Why not at the age of 5, or 2 or infants? Who decides what is the 'right' age? Dr. E's church does infant baptism; she may be able to tell you.
Are you kidding? Compared to God we don't even rate to the level of morons. We are less than toddlers.
That kind of humility would be great were it not obvious, nonetheless He made us in His image and likeness (the latter we lost), so that would not bide very well for His central creation, namely man.
It's like someone calling his moron a moron. It says a lot a bout the husband who chose her. You are saying God either made us trash or allowed us to become trash.
The objective suicidal stupidity of the sinner knows no bounds
I guess that's okay; God let them get that way, right? Sort of like your playing-in-the-traffic example. Out of five kids you'd let four play in the traffic and keep your 'favorite' one (the elect) to yourself.
How many OT stories have you read and just wound up shaking your head?
Tons. Over and over.
There was God, right in front of them telling them what to do, and they blew it
Well, we are not perfect, by design, or neglect, whichever you prefer, not by fault (using Reformed theology logic). Can't blame a dog for bing a dog, right?
Without God we are completely helpless
We are helpless regardless, according to the Reformed theology. God already decided what's going to happen with all of us, so no amount of praying, crying or reading will change that.
But those "amazing things" aren't what save the child; what saves the child is the same thing that saves the adult -- Christ's redemption of them on the cross.
Infant baptism acknowledges the covenant of grace God made with His children that He would save them through Christ's atonement. Baptism, at whatever age, confirms this promise.
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life." -- Luke 1:68-75"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,