Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: jo kus
I am curious to know why you would apply 1 Cor 11:28-30 to unbelievers?! That is nonsense. Paul is writing to Christians who are abusing the Eucharist. Catholics STILL do not just invite anyone to the Eucharist. How could Paul be speaking of non-believers who are unworthily taking the Eucharist and dying as a result?

Paul was writing to the Corinthians who, as a group, Paul knew to be less than model Christians. He knew full well that there were pretenders among them. Unlike Catholicism, claiming to be a believer does not make one a believer. Paul knew that and was warning those pretenders to examine themselves and not take the Supper. After an honest self-examination, Paul's hope was that the person would then turn to Christ for real. EVERY Christian church to this day has members/parishioners who are not right with Christ and are not true believers. The Eucharist/Lord's Supper is not for them.

Basically, you are telling me that you have an idea of what God is and what He has revealed, and will tend to agree with ANYONE who agrees with your own preconceived ideas.

I suppose you have fleshed me out. I must admit that I agree with those who agree with me. However, I fail to see the profundity in this.

See, FK, in a revealed religion, it is supposed to be the other way around. God REVEALS HIMSELF to us - WE don't tell God what WE think about Him. Thus, when God reveals Himself through the Church, it is up to us to change our views when necessary. This is the difference between you and the Catholic.

You have it backwards. Reformers say that God reveals Himself to all believers. He changes our hearts to agree with Him, thus it is God who changes our views. This is a truly revealed faith from God. Not so in Catholicism because, contrary to your statement, God does NOT in fact reveal Himself to YOU. Instead, He reveals Himself ONLY to your hierarchy. Then, your hierarchy reveals what it chooses to reveal to you. This is only a revealed faith from men.

You receive the letters from outside, but the meaning you derive from your own ideas, rather than the mind of the Church.

The "mind of the Church" is simply a winner-take-all vote among those men you have decided to follow. I also follow the ideas of certain men. The difference is that mine must pass the test of scripture, whereas yours can say absolutely anything and you are required to follow no matter what.

10,986 posted on 02/22/2007 12:31:59 AM PST by Forest Keeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10802 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper
Paul was writing to the Corinthians who, as a group, Paul knew to be less than model Christians. He knew full well that there were pretenders among them. Unlike Catholicism, claiming to be a believer does not make one a believer. Paul knew that and was warning those pretenders to examine themselves and not take the Supper.

Paul is only writing to those who CAN receive the Eucharist. Thus, 1 Cor 11:28-30 CANNOT apply to those who are NOT Christians by Baptism. Paul is telling those who are to receive should examine themselves if they are worthy. In other words, no mortal sin. As to "true-believers", that is a highly subjective term that means nothing to me, because NO ONE knows whether they are a "true-believer". Only the elect are, and we don't know who the elect are, since we haven't had a full life history read to us yet.

I suppose you have fleshed me out. I must admit that I agree with those who agree with me. However, I fail to see the profundity in this.

Profundity? LOL! The point is whether YOU determine what God has revealed or not...Apparently, because you yourself have proclaimed to the world that you are a "true-believer", while "most Catholics" are not, then I suppose God speaks directly through you in all cases...

Reformers say that God reveals Himself to all believers.

AH! So according to your earlier statement, only "true-believers" will receive this knowledge. What is quite funny is that you all claim to be "true-believers", thus, justifying any particular theology that you desire to be as FROM GOD! Thus, the Jehovah Witnesses make the exact same claim you do - and disagree on whether Jesus is God or not. As it turns out, your religion is quite self-serving.

Sorry, I don't believer your self-serving claim. That would require me to believe that God cannot make up His mind on Who He is and what He has revealed, since there are so many "true-believers" out there who make diametrically opposed claims. God is truth. Thus, your claims are not believable. God must reveal Himself differently than you think.

The "mind of the Church" is simply a winner-take-all vote among those men you have decided to follow. I also follow the ideas of certain men. The difference is that mine must pass the test of scripture, whereas yours can say absolutely anything and you are required to follow no matter what.

I will respectfully disagree with you, as it appears you do not know the process of how dogma becomes part of the life of the Church.

Regards

10,992 posted on 02/22/2007 7:10:59 AM PST by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10986 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson