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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg
"If you freely and willingly allow something, even if you hate it, there is no reason for anger"

The ultimate origin of evil is not described in scripture and no attempt is made to give us a solution of the mystery as to why God permitted the first sin of man. Scripture begins by stating Satan's hostile and evil attitude towards God and to man. Gen. 3:1-7, Isa. 14:12-15, Ezek. 28:12-19, John 8:44, 2 Cor. 11:3, Rev. 12:9. Scripture deals with the consequences of sin and the development of variations of sin (Gen. 6 and 9-19), Job 14:1-10, Psalms 90:5-12, Rom. 3:10-18, 5:12-21, 7:5-24. 8:10, 19-22, 1 Tim. 2:12-15, James 4:14) and it gives us the penalty and satisfaction for sin.

What scripture does tell us is that :

God is not the author of sin (Isa. 45:7 means that god ordained the consequences of sin, not the sin itself).

God has no need of sin in order to enhance His glory, and He did not permit it solely in order to demonstrate His moral grandeur.

The subsequent responsibility of mankind in relation to sin is in no way diminished nor excused on the ground that men now living were not guilty of its inception.

God is not to be regarded as a party to the repeated acts of sin which man has all too successfully perpetuated, nor is He to be held responsible for the perpetuation of sin simply because He has not withdrawn His sustaining power from the universe. If man freely chooses to misuse certain of his wonderful endowments and to prostitute his remarkable abilities to sinful ends, it is scarcely just to blame God.

Scripture does not encourage philosophical speculation on the subject of the origin of sin or the reason for God's antipathy to it and, ever in keeping itself to the practical needs of man, focuses the attention on the acts of human responsibility. It gives no final answer to the question "Why did not God's foreknowledge lead Him to anticipate and to prevent sin both in the first man and also at its first entry into the universe, in whatever form that was?"
10,835 posted on 02/19/2007 9:44:08 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; Forest Keeper; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg
Scripture begins by stating Satan's hostile and evil attitude towards God and to man. Gen. 3:1-7, Isa. 14:12-15, Ezek. 28:12-19

That is incorrect, BD. First, Genesis does not say that the serpent was Satan. It only says that "the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made." From this we know that the serpent was (1) craftier than other beasts, and (2) that he was one of God's creatures. If God made him, then God made him craftier then all other bests. He made him specifically with the purpose to use his craftiness on Adam and Eve, and in fact God 'allowed' the serpent to enter the Garden.

Surely we are not going to use "dog ate my homework" logic here! Obviously, God was behind it. God created the situation. The players had no choice but to do as God predestined. God was the creator, the director and the choreographer.

Isa 14:12 talks about someone other than Satan. There is no connection between the Babylonian god of Dawn and the accuser (sawtawna, satan) in Judaism.

Eze 28:12-19 likewise speaks of an actual king who was given everything. No Satan mentioned by name, as he is mentioned in several places in the OT.

God is not the author of sin (Isa. 45:7 means that god ordained the consequences of sin, not the sin itself)

Isa 45:7 does not mean that he ordained the consequences, it actually "quotes" God as saying "I (the Lord) create evil/calamity."

If something happens on your watch, BD, it's yours. Especially if you are the creator of everything and all. If God did not create evil and sin, then evil and sin do not exist.

This must be so if (1) we deny man's free will, (2) if we claim that God's will cannot be resisted, (3) if we insist on God's predestination that's not based on foreknowledge of our choices.

If God created us good, then we must have become evil by resisting God or esle we have only obeyed God's wishes that we become evil.

If man freely chooses to misuse certain of his wonderful endowments and to prostitute his remarkable abilities to sinful ends, it is scarcely just to blame God

Agreed, but I am shocked! Resisting God's will by our will?

10,836 posted on 02/19/2007 10:55:53 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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