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To: blue-duncan; Forest Keeper; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg
Scripture begins by stating Satan's hostile and evil attitude towards God and to man. Gen. 3:1-7, Isa. 14:12-15, Ezek. 28:12-19

That is incorrect, BD. First, Genesis does not say that the serpent was Satan. It only says that "the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made." From this we know that the serpent was (1) craftier than other beasts, and (2) that he was one of God's creatures. If God made him, then God made him craftier then all other bests. He made him specifically with the purpose to use his craftiness on Adam and Eve, and in fact God 'allowed' the serpent to enter the Garden.

Surely we are not going to use "dog ate my homework" logic here! Obviously, God was behind it. God created the situation. The players had no choice but to do as God predestined. God was the creator, the director and the choreographer.

Isa 14:12 talks about someone other than Satan. There is no connection between the Babylonian god of Dawn and the accuser (sawtawna, satan) in Judaism.

Eze 28:12-19 likewise speaks of an actual king who was given everything. No Satan mentioned by name, as he is mentioned in several places in the OT.

God is not the author of sin (Isa. 45:7 means that god ordained the consequences of sin, not the sin itself)

Isa 45:7 does not mean that he ordained the consequences, it actually "quotes" God as saying "I (the Lord) create evil/calamity."

If something happens on your watch, BD, it's yours. Especially if you are the creator of everything and all. If God did not create evil and sin, then evil and sin do not exist.

This must be so if (1) we deny man's free will, (2) if we claim that God's will cannot be resisted, (3) if we insist on God's predestination that's not based on foreknowledge of our choices.

If God created us good, then we must have become evil by resisting God or esle we have only obeyed God's wishes that we become evil.

If man freely chooses to misuse certain of his wonderful endowments and to prostitute his remarkable abilities to sinful ends, it is scarcely just to blame God

Agreed, but I am shocked! Resisting God's will by our will?

10,836 posted on 02/19/2007 10:55:53 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg
"Agreed, but I am shocked! Resisting God's will by our will?"

Free will is like Plato's cave. When one is bound in the darkness and all he sees are the shadows on the wall he comes to believe that they are reality. When he is loosed from the bondage and begins to see that they were mere shadows and that the reality is something else, ultimately the good or as we would say the ultimate good, God, we begin to realize that all is according to His plan and what we thought in the shadows was our free will was really God working out His plan for His own glory and good pleasure.

Does the world think that they are making decisions based on their free will? Does it think that it can make tomorrow's or even the next hour's plans or decisions come true? Does it make any difference to the world that God is the One who makes rain fall or the sun to shine or thwarts the ways and plans of men? Revelations shows that even in the face of this knowledge, the world will still do what it wants in spite of the evidenced consequences; so the question then is what difference does it make if you knew or didn't know that God is in control of the minutest details of life? Will anyone say to God, "You are unjust?" The scriptures say No; they would rather have the rocks fall on them than to bow down to or acknowledge the authority of God.
10,855 posted on 02/19/2007 5:45:15 PM PST by blue-duncan
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