Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Forest Keeper
What does the consensus patrum say

I have no leg to stand on when it comes to concensus patrum, FK. But I don't see any evidence that the whole thing was intended for the gentiles from the get-go.

I would think that Jesus had no problem in associating with the Gentile riffraff

Do we have references to that, other than an occasional Canaan woman?

I'm still not sure what you mean by this. Did Christ NOT advocate Christianity as we know it?

What He taught was Judaism. He was a Jew. A Jew cannot believe in another religion and be a Jew.

He never advocated anything but obedience to the Law. He never advocated dispensing with dietary laws, or circumcision; He never advocated 'grafting' gentiles to Israel.

In fact, if all He did was restate, then there would have been no movement to kill Him

He was not killed because He came to restate but because He was rumored to have claimed that was the Son of God. That was a capital offense in Israel.

Do you believe what the Bible says happened on the road to Damascus?

I don't know what happened. In 1 Cor 9:1 +Paul says "Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" but in Acts 9:8 it says "And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

10,745 posted on 02/16/2007 8:29:39 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10743 | View Replies ]


To: kosta50
But I don't see any evidence that the whole thing was intended for the gentiles from the get-go.

In this context, lemme try it this way. Was Adam a Jew? No, because Abraham was the first Jew. YET, the whole foundation of Orthodox theosis is trying to get back to the original state of Adam, right? Well, since Adam was neither Jew nor Gentile, it should be open to all. I'm not basing this on anything, but I thought it was worth a shot. :)

FK: "I would think that Jesus had no problem in associating with the Gentile riffraff."

Do we have references to that, other than an occasional Canaan woman?

Yes. One example, again, being the centurion. Whether Jesus was preaching Judaism (as you said earlier) to him or not, He DID associate with him. Jesus was famous for taking supper and lodging with known sinners. They were the ones who needed Him most. If the plan all along was going to be to officially bring the Gentiles in, it would have been very odd to me if Jesus DIDN'T give us a preview of this. I believe He did. And even besides Matt. 28 we have other evidence of Jesus foretelling the inclusion of the Gentiles:

Matt 24:14 : And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

John 10:16 : I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

---------------

FK: "In fact, if all He did was restate, then there would have been no movement to kill Him."

He was not killed because He came to restate but because He was rumored to have claimed that was the Son of God. That was a capital offense in Israel.

Yes, that is precisely my point. By making His claim He was doing a lot more than restating IN THEIR EYES. Maybe I'm not sure what you mean by "Judaism". There was the Judaism of the OT righteous, and then there was the Judaism of the masses of Jews who demanded His death. Obviously, very different.

FK: "Do you believe what the Bible says happened on the road to Damascus?"

I don't know what happened. In 1 Cor 9:1 +Paul says "Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" but in Acts 9:8 it says "And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

Acts 9:8 happens AFTER Paul's encounter with Christ, when he was blinded. It says earlier:

Acts 9:3 : 3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: ... KJV

Now, this "could" be the reference in 1 Cor. 9:1 to "seeing" Jesus Christ. Or, more likely, IMO, Paul really did see Jesus in this sense:

1 Cor 15:5-8 : ... 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

10,923 posted on 02/21/2007 2:28:47 AM PST by Forest Keeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10745 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson