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To: kosta50
Find me one where He says GO therefore to the Gentiles. Again, Matthew 28 is matter of interpretation. Ethnos can mean a variety of things. Just as American Indians speak of "nations" coming together (meaning Native American), this is a common anthropological phenomenon among tribal peoples.

And on that interpretation hinges whether Christ commanded Gentiles to witness to others. Let's look at it from your POV. What does the consensus patrum say about someone witnessing to you, or you witnessing to other Gentiles? Full support, right? So, must this not be the will of Christ? How could it not be?

The reason I am saying this the fact that Jesus was a Jew and as a Jew He could not associate closely with the Gentiles. Activities such as eating together and fraternizing in a general way was strictly forbidden, never mind praying together!

As a Jew, could Jesus do work on the Sabbath? We know what happened there, so I would think that Jesus had no problem in associating with the Gentile riffraff. One of the big parts of Jesus' New Covenant was to officially bring in the Gentiles. I can't believe Jesus didn't lay any groundwork. (I already think He did in some of the verses you earlier rejected as to interpretation.)

Christ never advocated anything but Judaism. And Judaism He could preach only to the lost tribes of Israel (Jews do not proselytize).

I'm still not sure what you mean by this. Did Christ NOT advocate Christianity as we know it? If He didn't then we all have a problem.

He merely restated what the Jews believed, namely that through the messiah (meshiyah), who will establish peace and rule as a king on earth, the world will get to know (know about) the God of Abraham, not necessarily that the world will believe.

If He only came to restate, then He could not have fulfilled. In fact, if all He did was restate, then there would have been no movement to kill Him.

The Gospels were written when Christianity had only a one way ticket out of Israel. +Matthew wrote his between 70 and 100 AD. By then +Paul was already dead, and so was +James, along with the Church in Jerusalem (which was shut down in 69 AD). In view of that, +Matthew's Gospel's ending makes sense, a lot of sense!

Was it God's inspired word or not? Was all of this exactly according to God's original plan or not? Sure, the ending of Matthew makes a lot of sense, but not because of unforeseen circumstances, but because it was exactly as God designed.

FK: "... if you really believe that Christ did not want them to preach to Gentiles, then the only way you are saved is because Paul DISOBEYED Christ."

I don't think he disobeyed Christ. I don't think he ever saw Christ. I think +Paul was a very zealous convert. He saw Christians dying with joy and without fear. Many were impressed by that. He could have learned a great deal about Christianity in his line of work.

Do you believe what the Bible says happened on the road to Damascus? This is critical to any opinion of Paul. If that was just a story to buck up his street cred. then Paul was a fraud. He made very bold claims about that experience, which the other Apostles seemed to fully accept. I don't see much room for a middle of the road view here.

10,743 posted on 02/16/2007 8:09:41 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
What does the consensus patrum say

I have no leg to stand on when it comes to concensus patrum, FK. But I don't see any evidence that the whole thing was intended for the gentiles from the get-go.

I would think that Jesus had no problem in associating with the Gentile riffraff

Do we have references to that, other than an occasional Canaan woman?

I'm still not sure what you mean by this. Did Christ NOT advocate Christianity as we know it?

What He taught was Judaism. He was a Jew. A Jew cannot believe in another religion and be a Jew.

He never advocated anything but obedience to the Law. He never advocated dispensing with dietary laws, or circumcision; He never advocated 'grafting' gentiles to Israel.

In fact, if all He did was restate, then there would have been no movement to kill Him

He was not killed because He came to restate but because He was rumored to have claimed that was the Son of God. That was a capital offense in Israel.

Do you believe what the Bible says happened on the road to Damascus?

I don't know what happened. In 1 Cor 9:1 +Paul says "Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" but in Acts 9:8 it says "And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

10,745 posted on 02/16/2007 8:29:39 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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