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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Blogger; kosta50; Quester; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
you, as a Catholic, are a proponent of just going with the straight text?

Certainly. The scripture has many levels on which it speaks to us, but the literal meaning is always first.

Works will always accompany faith, so without works there is no faith.

This, more or less, is the Catholic understanding. Works of love and faith are like two legs on a journey: one pulls the other, in turn.

God gives saving grace only to His elect, but bases His decision solely on His looking through His crystal ball to see who "would" have accepted Him, then it is also a mockery because God is reduced to a stenographer.

If that were all God did, then yes, He would be a mere recorder of our lives. But he also gave us His Son, which set the entire grand design of salvation in motion. Without Him, there would be no outpouring of grace and no works.

You are saying to me that this does not say that the believer himself cannot leave. The text says "no one", so you are apparently asking me to consider that the believer is not a person. This is why you surprised me so much with your opening statement about following the plain text.

The plain text is "snatching". Do people snatch themselves?

10,016 posted on 02/10/2007 4:07:22 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
Works of love and faith are like two legs on a journey: one pulls the other, in turn.

I know I said that works accompany faith, but I wouldn't phrase it this way. Faith is what is salvific, works are a result of faith. It's more like faith is both of the legs, and works are being carried.

The plain text is "snatching". Do people snatch themselves?

Oh, come on. :) Is that the official line? The verse also says that Christ does give them eternal life, and that they will NEVER perish.

10,637 posted on 02/15/2007 6:27:27 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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