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'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children
LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 12/4/2006 | John-Henry Westen

Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480

'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

By John-Henry Westen

NEW YORK, December 4, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A review of New Line Cinema's The Nativity story by Fr. Angelo Mary Geiger of the Franciscans of the Immaculate in the United States, points out that the film, which opened December 1, misinterprets scripture from a Catholic perspective.

While Fr. Geiger admits that he found the film is "in general, to be a pious and reverential presentation of the Christmas mystery." He adds however, that "not only does the movie get the Virgin Birth wrong, it thoroughly Protestantizes its portrayal of Our Lady."

In Isaiah 7:14 the Bible predicts the coming of the Messiah saying: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Fr. Geiger, in an video blog post, explains that the Catholic Church has taught for over 2000 years that the referenced Scripture showed that Mary would not only conceive the child miraculously, but would give birth to the child miraculously - keeping her physical virginity intact during the birth.

The film, he suggests, in portraying a natural, painful birth of Christ, thus denies the truth of the virginal and miraculous birth of Christ, which, he notes, the Fathers of the Church compared to light passing through glass without breaking it. Fr. Geiger quoted the fourth century St. Augustine on the matter saying. "That same power which brought the body of the young man through closed doors, brought the body of the infant forth from the inviolate womb of the mother."

Fr. Geiger contrasts The Nativity Story with The Passion of the Christ, noting that with the latter, Catholics and Protestants could agree to support it. He suggests, however, that the latter is "a virtual coup against Catholic Mariology".

The characterization of Mary further debases her as Fr. Geiger relates in his review. "Mary in The Nativity lacks depth and stature, and becomes the subject of a treatment on teenage psychology."

Beyond the non-miraculous birth, the biggest let-down for Catholics comes from Director Catherine Hardwicke's own words. Hardwicke explains her rationale in an interview: "We wanted her [Mary] to feel accessible to a young teenager, so she wouldn't seem so far away from their life that it had no meaning for them. I wanted them to see Mary as a girl, as a teenager at first, not perfectly pious from the very first moment. So you see Mary going through stuff with her parents where they say, 'You're going to marry this guy, and these are the rules you have to follow.' Her father is telling her that she's not to have sex with Joseph for a year-and Joseph is standing right there."

Comments Fr. Geiger, "it is rather disconcerting to see Our Blessed Mother portrayed with 'attitude;' asserting herself in a rather anachronistic rebellion against an arranged marriage, choosing her words carefully with her parents, and posing meaningful silences toward those who do not understand her."

Fr. Geiger adds that the film also contains "an overly graphic scene of St. Elizabeth giving birth," which is "just not suitable, in my opinion, for young children to view."

Despite its flaws Fr. Geiger, after viewing the film, also has some good things to say about it. "Today, one must commend any sincere attempt to put Christ back into Christmas, and this film is certainly one of them," he says. "The Nativity Story in no way compares to the masterpiece which is The Passion of the Christ, but it is at least sincere, untainted by cynicism, and a worthy effort by Hollywood to end the prejudice against Christianity in the public square."

And, in addition to a good portrait of St. Joseph, the film offers "at least one cinematic and spiritual triumph" in portraying the Visitation of Mary to St. Elizabeth. "Although the Magnificat is relegated to a kind of epilogue at the movie's end, the meeting between Mary and Elizabeth is otherwise faithful to the scriptures and quite poignant. In a separate scene, the two women experience the concurrent movement of their children in utero and share deeply in each other's joy. I can't think of another piece of celluloid that illustrates the dignity of the unborn child better than this."

See Fr. Geiger's full review here:
http://airmaria.com/


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholics; christmas; mary; movie; nativity; nativitystory; thenativitystory
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To: Blogger
Call us Calvinists if you wish, but the doctrine traces to Scripture itself

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

4,201 posted on 01/06/2007 6:56:21 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Blogger

TULIP never was the church's doctrine until or after Calvin.

We could agree I think that it reached it's full bloom and completion into a separate scripture-based religion under Calvin.

You can find pieces of TULIP, heck I agree with pieces, in many different places and back-read this as "Calvin". But the full-blown TULIP? No.

It's like we've been saying; you can't take part and not harmonize it with the whole and call it 'scriptural.'


4,202 posted on 01/06/2007 6:58:44 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
St. Augustine is a Calvinist like St. Thomas Aquinas is a Lutheran.
4,203 posted on 01/06/2007 7:00:26 PM PST by bornacatholic
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Someone missed Rick Warren's 'pilgrimage' to Syria...


4,204 posted on 01/06/2007 7:02:16 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

"I know of no Protestant minister who has kissed the Koran."

Nor do I know of any Orthodox Patriarch who has. But +JPII is dead and +BXVI lives...for a very long time I hope.


4,205 posted on 01/06/2007 7:07:43 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Blogger; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; annalex

Salvation is in obeying the Commandments, not sola scriptura scrabble. You left out love, for "love is the fulfillment of the law." [+Paul, Romans 13:10]


4,206 posted on 01/06/2007 7:08:10 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Blogger; D-fendr; Dr. Eckleburg

Calvinism isn't that big a deal. Just look at it as someone trusting God on absolutely every single possible anything and you've got it.

There's nothing wrong with it.


4,207 posted on 01/06/2007 7:10:18 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Blogger

Just on the face of it, how can Calvinism be Jesus's teaching? What was Jesus's telling us to do? Why bother?

Was Jesus teaching something we have no free will or ability to do? Is Jesus saying: "Repent (you elect who can do no different)!'

Calvinism vanishes all meaning from The Gospel.


4,208 posted on 01/06/2007 7:14:14 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: xzins; Blogger; D-fendr; Dr. Eckleburg; annalex; bornacatholic; Kolokotronis
Calvinism isn't that big a deal. Just look at it as someone trusting God on absolutely every single possible anything and you've got it

No, it's a self-delusion that everything one does is doing God's work.

4,209 posted on 01/06/2007 7:17:51 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: xzins
Just look at it as someone trusting God on absolutely every single possible anything and you've got it.

If that's all it is, then no problem. But that's not all it is.

If that's all is taught by it, no problem. But that's not all that's taught.

4,210 posted on 01/06/2007 7:19:36 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: kosta50; Blogger; blue-duncan; xzins
Salvation is in obeying the Commandments, not sola scriptura scrabble.

Only if you can keep the law perfectly. Can you?

"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" -- Romans 9:16

4,211 posted on 01/06/2007 7:22:21 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: xzins

"C'mon now, Kolo, don't be too tight. It's funny."

No, its not Padre. But like I said, maybe its the booze talking and I am, as I have said, a great sinner, because I know you love and respect Orthodox Chistianity. Its just of late you've been less than decent about it. By the way, you've got mail!


4,212 posted on 01/06/2007 7:23:21 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kosta50; D-fendr; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; blue-duncan

Yes, that is all that's taught by Calvinism.

Everything is the result of the intentional decision of God, bar nothing.

That's it.

Trust God and don't worry should be their slogan.


4,213 posted on 01/06/2007 7:23:25 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins; Blogger; D-fendr; Dr. Eckleburg; annalex; bornacatholic; Kolokotronis
There's nothing wrong with [Calivinism]

It makes God the source of evil. It makes Judas a "hero" who simply "obeyed" God (I guess that makes Satan an obedient servant of God too). It makes the Fall of man a preconceived choreographed drama. It renders sin meaningless. It makes God the One who sets up traps and man culpable for falling in them.

There is plenty wrong with Calvinism.

4,214 posted on 01/06/2007 7:24:00 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: xzins

You musta missed the TULIP lecture...


4,215 posted on 01/06/2007 7:24:51 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: kosta50; xzins; Blogger; D-fendr; Dr. Eckleburg; annalex; bornacatholic; Kolokotronis

"Salvation is in obeying the Commandments, not sola scriptura scrabble."

"No, it's a self-delusion that everything one does is doing God's work."

Alright, now that we agree that we can't work for our salvation it must be "by grace are ye saved through faith....it is the gift of God, not works..."


4,216 posted on 01/06/2007 7:30:34 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Kolokotronis

I do respect Orthodoxy.

But, I'll pull the trigger on charismatics over Pat Robertson, evangelicals over Billy Graham, Methodists (over anybody), fundamentalists over the KJV, Anglicans over their gay bishop whasisname, Catholics over just about every Archbishop that I'm familiar with, and Orthodoxy over their suits and beards.

Of course, there's some bite behind every bit of humor, but that doesn't mean it wasn't meant in jest. And those who've tossed about the "heresy" word at protestants these last 3000 posts or so haven't always been jesting.

I've long said on these pages for years that I totally disagree with opulence and ostentatiousness. It is one of my top 3 disagreements with Catholicism (behind Immaculate Conception and Assumption.)


4,217 posted on 01/06/2007 7:30:44 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Only if you can keep the law perfectly. Can you?

Then why say "be(come) therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect" if you can't? make you perfect...

4,218 posted on 01/06/2007 7:30:51 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Mrs. Don-o; sitetest; BlackElk
Ok. Here we go again with the St. Augustine was a CryptoCalvinist claims. It makes as much sense as trying to claim Yogi Berra played for the Red Sox...

..Time for some quotes from the CATHOLIC Ausustine...Read these and try and shoe-horn HIM into Calvinism....

AUGUSTINE ON AUTHORITY OF CATHOLIC CHURCH

I would not believe the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not compel me

AUGUSTINE ON BEING IN UNION WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

"Whosoever shall have separated himself from the Catholic Church, no matter how praiseworthy such a person may fancy his life has been, yet for that one crime of having cut himself off from the unity of Christ he shall not have eternal life, but the wrath of God shall abide with him for ever." St.Augustine of Hippo ("Letter 141," c. early 5th century)

AUGUSTINE: CATHOLIC CHURCH IS AN AUTHORITATIVE CHURCH

The Catholic Church is the work of Divine Providence, achieved through the prophecies of the prophets, through the Incarnation and the teaching of Christ, through the journeys of the Apostles, through the suffering, the crosses, the blood and death of the martyrs, through the admirable lives of the saints?. When, then, we see so much help on God?s part, so much progress and so much fruit, shall we hesitate to bury ourselves in the bosom of that Church? For starting from the apostolic chair down through successions of bishops, even unto the open confession of all mankind, it has possessed the crown of teaching authority (Augustine, The Advantage of Believing 35 392 A.D.)

SALVATION ONLY THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

A man cannot have salvation, except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church he can have everything except salvation. He can have honor, he can have Sacraments, he can sing alleluia, he can answer amen, he can possess the gospel, he can have and preach faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit; but never except in the Catholic Church will he be able to find salvation. (Augustine, Discourse to the People of the Church at Caesarea, A.D. 418)

AUGUSTINE ON HOW MORTAL SINS AND VENIAL SINS ARE FORGIVEN.ONLY THE BAPTIZED CAN BE FORGIVEN

But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the Body of Christ; perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities: that is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in Baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet, God does not forgive sins except to the baptized.(Augustine, Sermon to Catechumens, on the Creed, AD 395)

AUGUSTINE URGES CHRISTIANS TO PRAY FOR THE DEAD (ONLY FOR THOSE STILL IN PURGATORY (NOT YET PURGED OF ALL SINS), BUT NOT TO PRAY FOR MARTYRS WHO ARE ALREADY IN HEAVEN)

there is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God (17), where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. For it is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended.? [Augustine, Sermons inter AD 391-430]

AUGUSTINE ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS THE TRUE CHURCH:

We believe also in the holy Church, that is, the Catholic Church; for heretics and schismatics call their own congregations churches.

AUGUSTINE ON PETER THE ROCK AND THE KEYS GIVEN TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Let us not listen to those who deny that the Church of God is able to forgive all sins. They are wretched indeed, because they do not recognize in Peter the rock and they refuse to believe that the keys of the kingdom of heaven, lost from their own hands, have been given to the Church. These are people who condemn as adulteresses widows who marry, and boast that theirs is a purity superior to the teaching of the Apostles! (Augustine, Against the Letter of Mani, AD 396 aut 397)

AUGUSTINE ON SUCCESSION

The succession of priests, from the very see of the Apostle Peter, to whom our Lord, after His resurrection, gave the charge of feeding His sheep, up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And at last, the very name of Catholic,which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all the heretics want to be called Catholic, when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets , none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house (Augustine,Against the Letter of Mani, AD 396-397)

AUGUSTINE ON THE REAL PRESENCE

For it was the Body of the Lord and the Blood of the Lord even in those to whom the Apostle said: Whoever eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks judgment to himself (15). (Augustine, Baptism, AD 400)

AUGUSTINE ON SACRAMENTS OF BAPTISM AND ORDERS

Both of these, Baptism and Orders, are Sacraments, and each is given to a man by a certain sacred rite , when he is baptized, and the other, when he is ordained. In the Catholic Church, therefore, it is not permitted to repeat either of these Sacraments. For even if their leaders , when they come over to us from among the schismatics, are received for the good of peace and to rectify the error of schism, and even it is seen that it is feasible for them to carry on in the same offices which they had before, they are not ordained again, but, just as with their Baptism, so too their ordination remains whole; because the defect was in their separation, which is corrected by the peace that comes of unity, and not in the Sacraments, which everywhere they are found, are the same. (Augustine, Against the Letter of Paremenian. [ca A.D. 400]

AUGUSTINE ON APOSTOLIC TRADITION

What the universal Church holds, not as instituted by councils but as something always held, is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority. (Augustine, Baptism 4, 24, 31)

AUGUSTINE: BAPTISM AND EUCHARIST NECESSARY FOR SALVATION

It is an excellent thing that the Punic Christians (call Baptism itself nothing else but salvation, and the Sacrament of Christ's Body nothing else but life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the Churches of Christ, hold inherently that without Baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture too.? (Augustine, Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of sins, and the Baptism of Infants, AD 412)

AUGUSTINE On BAPTISM AS REGENERATIVE

If anyone wonders why children born of the baptized should themselves be baptized, let him attend briefly to this?The Sacrament of Baptism is most assuredly the Sacrament of regeneration. But just as the man who never lived cannot die, and one who has not died cannot rise again, so too one who was never born cannot be reborn?..Unless we voluntarily depart from the rule of the Christian faith it must be admitted that inasmuch as infants are, by the Sacrament of Baptism, conformed to the death of Christ, they are also freed from the serpents venomous bite. This bite, however, they did not receive in their own proper life, but in him who first suffered that wound.? (Augustine, Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of sins, and the Baptism of Infants, AD 412)

AUGUSTINE SAYS TO PRAY FOR THE DEAD IN PURGATORY, BUT NOT THE DEAD IN HEAVEN OR HELL

The prayer either of the Church herself or of pious individuals is heard on behalf of certain of the dead; but it is heard for those who, having been regenerated in Christ, did not for the rest of their life in the body do such wickedness that they might be judged unworthy of such mercy, nor who yet lived so well that it might be supposed they have no need of such mercy. (21, 24, 2..Augustine, City of God? A.D. 413-426)

AUGUSTINE: SAYING THE LORD?S PRAYER TAKES AWAY SINS

The daily prayer, which Jesus Himself taught and for which reason it is called the Lord's Prayer, certainly takes away daily sins, when we say daily: Forgive us our debts (40).Â? (Augustine, City of God A.D. 413-426)

AUGUSTINE SAYS MARY NEVER SINNED

Having excepted the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins, - for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear Him in whom there was no sin- (Augustine, Nature and Grace A.D. 415)

DEGREE OF SIN DETERMINES LENGTH OF PUNISHMENT

Âins which are punished by an extremely lengthy period of penalties are committed in an extremely short time (34); nor is there anyone who would suppose that the punishments should be as quickly over as the offenses were quickly performed, whether murder or adultery or sacrilege or any other crime whatsoever that is to be measured, not by how long it took to do it, but by the magnitude of its wickedness and impiety. (Augustine City of God 21, 11)

AUGUSTINE: PUNISHMENT FOR OUR SINS NOT COMPLETED WHEN WE DIE, WILL BE COMPLETED AFTER WE DIE BUT BEFORE JUDGMENT DAY (IE, PURGATORY)

Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment (35). But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment. (Augustine City of God 21, 13)

AUGUSTINE SAYS PURGATORY WILL END BY JUDGMENT DAY

Let it not be supposed that there are any future purgatorial punishments,except before that last and tremendous judgment.

AUGUSTINE REITERATES THAT SINS ARE FORGIVEN IN BAPTISM

are cleansed and healed, not only all the sins which are remitted in Baptism, but even those which are committed later (Augustine, Marriage and Concupiscence)

AUGUSTINE ON PURGATORY

That there should be some such fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, -through a certain purgatorial fire. (Augustine, Enchiridion of Faith, Hope, and Love, A.D. 421)

AUGUSTINE SAYS PRAYING FOR THE DEAD IS A UNIVERSAL TEACHING OF THE CHURCH

We read in the books of the Maccabees that sacrifice was offered for the dead. But even if it were found nowhere in the Old Testament writings, the authority of the universal Church which is clear on this point is of no small weight, wherein the prayers of the priest poured forth to the Lord God at His altar the commendation of the dead has its place. (Augustine, The Care that Should be taken of the Dead, A.D. 421)

AUGUSTINE SAYS YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SALVATION

But if someone already regenerate and justified should, of his own will,relapse into his evil life, certainly that man cannot say:I have not received; because he lost the grace he received from God and by his own free choice went to evil. (Augustine, Admonition and Grace, A.D. 426 aut 427)

AUGUSTINE ON APOSTOLIC TRADITION

"Those which we keep, not as being written, but as from, if observed by the whole of Christendom, are thereby understood to be committed to us by the apostles themselves or plenary Councils, and to be retained as instituted." (Ep 118).

AUGUSTINE ON APOSTOLIC TRADITION

"But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept,either by the Apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church" (Letter to Januarius [A.D.400]).

AUGUSTINE ON APOSTOLIC TRADITION

"And if anyone seek for Divine authority in this matter, though what is held by the whole Church, and not as instituted by Councils, but as a matter of invariable custom, is rightly held to have been handed down by an apostolic authority." (On Baptism 24 speaking of infant Baptism).

AUGUSTINE ON APOSTOLIC TRADITION

"[T]he custom of not rebaptizing converts] ...may be supposed to have had its origin in Apostolic Tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the Apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings"

AUGUSTINE: THE CHURCH ESTABLISHED BY CHRIST MUST BE HEADED BY DIRECT SUCCESSOR OF PETER

For if the lineal succession of bishops is to be taken into account, with how much more certainty and benefit to the Church do we reckon back till we reach Peter himself, to whom, as bearing in a figure the whole Church, the Lord said:Â?Upon this rock will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall notprevail against it! The successor of Peter was Linus, and his successors in unbroken continuity were these: Clement, Anacletus, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telesphorus, Iginus, Anicetus, Pius, Soter, Eleutherius, Victor,Zephirinus, Calixtus, Urbanus, Pontianus, Antherus, Fabianus, Cornelius,Lucius, Stephanus, Xystus, Dionysius, Felix, Eutychianus, Gaius, Marcellinus, Marcellus, Eusebius, Miltiades, Sylvester, Marcus, Julius, Liberius, Damasus,and Siricius, whose successor is the present Bishop Anastasius. In this order of succession no Donatist bishop is found (Letters of Augustine 53, 2 in The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers 1st series, 1:298).

AUGUSTINE SAYS THE POPE OF HIS TIME, ANASTASIUS, SITS IN THE CHAIR OF PETER

If all men throughout the world were such as you most vainly accuse them of having been, what has the chair of the Roman church done to you, in which Peter sat, and in which Anastasius sits today?? [Against the Letters of Petilani 2: 118 [A.D. 402]

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS AUTHORITY. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS THE SUCCESSORS OF THE APOSTLES. EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNOWS WHICH CHURCH IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

In the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations keeps me in the Church; so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection,gave it in charge to feed His sheep (Jn 21:15-19), down to the present Episcopate.

And so, lastly, does the very name of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.

Such then in number and importance are the precious ties belonging to the Christian name which keep a believer in the Catholic Church, as it is right they should...With you, where there is none of these things to attract or keep me... No one shall move me from the faith which binds my mind with ties so many and so strong to the Christian religion...For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.

AUGUSTINE SAID HE WHO SEPARATES FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CANNOT ENTER HEAVEN

Whosoever shall have separated himself from the Catholic Church, no matter how praiseworthy such a person may fancy his life has been, yet for that one crime of having cut himself off from the unity of Christ he shall not have eternal life, but the wrath of God shall abide with him for ever. St Augustine of Hippo (Letter 141 c. early 5th century)

*So, was St. Augustine a CryptoCalvinist? Yeah. In the same sense Yogi Berra was the best Catcher the Red Sox ever had.

Even AFTER these quotes, will those who embrace the dark doctrines of Jean Cauvin claim St . Augustine as their Father? YES

I mean, they are not about to respond to "Who's your, Daddy?" with the truth. "Satan's Mini-Me"

4,219 posted on 01/06/2007 7:31:15 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: xzins
Trust God and don't worry should be their slogan.

James beat us to it...

"Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:

Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that." -- James 4:13-15


4,220 posted on 01/06/2007 7:36:01 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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