Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
I disagree, Alex (ever so agreeably though), but that's no surprise, is it?
The Bibles say, "A scripture is inspired by GOD..."
He inspired early Christians under apostolic authority to pen the actual parts.
This is your personal philosophy, nothing more. The scriptures that assert something similar have a narrower context, and there are scriptural examples of perfection and righteousness besides Jesus.
Learning from you too.
I think the truth is far greater than the myth. God took a humble normal woman and placed her in extraordinary circumstances and she was an example to us all staying to the end watching Jesus save our worthless souls on the cross.
I think you're absolutely right.
I'm amazed at threads like this. All these things we claim to KNOW as fact, yet not a one of us was there. Our human minds can't wrap around the awesome miraculous power of God, yet we argue with each other like we have all the answers.
Jesus came to earth, not as an earthly king, but as a baby. 100% human, yet 100% God. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, grew in the belly of a human, Mary, a virgin.
Do I know whether she had pain, bled, delivered naturally or not? No, I wasn't there. Do I know whether her body was returned to her pre-pregnant/birth physical state? No, I wasn't there. Do I doubt that God could do anything in that moment? No, He's God, He can do anything. I wonder what He thinks about all this time spent discussing the physical state of Mary's private parts. Shouldn't the focus be on Jesus? He was born, a baby.
Do *I* believe Mary was sinless? No. I think scripture teaches that she was a human. Blessed and virtuous. But not sineless. Jesus was the only sinless one. He came to earth as a man, and lived a sinless life, as only God can.
Do I think she had other children? I don't know, I wasn't there. Nor do I give it a huge amount of thought. There is no proof one way or the other. I lean towards probably. It seems Jesus was raised in a 'normal' carpenter's family, until time for his ministry. Why wouldn't there be other children? But I don't know.
Do I think any of these side issues are essential to the Gospel? No. I doubt very seriously that we will be separated in heaven by whether we believe Mary's private parts were in this or that state.
Come on, folks. We are God's people. The light to the dying world. Let's put our eyes and hearts back where they belong .. on Jesus.
We know He came to earth, a MIRACLE, He lived a sinless life, was crucified, buried, and was resurrected. He conquered death, hell, and the grave! He left us with the Holy Spirit and with Power.
We should be continuing the work of Christ, winning the souls of the lost, fighting Satan's schemes. Not getting sucked into foolish and stupid arguments.
Let's all have a group hug, and go witness to someone who needs Jesus.
Was surprised to see you'd excluded Latin.
Your boy, Luther, admitted as much...
"We concede -- as we must -- that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the papacy has God's word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?"
Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 - 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER'S WORKS, St. Louis, Mo.: Concordia, 1961, 304
Again, she had to go through purification rites because she was with a Child. What was she supposed to tell the Jewish priests, that the Chuld is not your ordinary human? What would that accomplish? And if she told them that +Josph was not the father, she would have been stoned to death.
LOL. How so?
We are not to "venerate" anyone except Jesus Christ.
He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire: And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?" -- Isaiah 44:15-20"Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
"Early Christians" means members of the Church. You may, like Luther, doubt that the authority of the Bible came from the the Church. He obviously thought that HE was inspired to deny that authority. But, really, doesn't it means we have to choose between Luther's insight --if that is what it was--and the pronouncements of the Church of Rome? Luther appealed to Scripture and then declared himself more competant than Rome. Sort of like the Supreme Court's "finding" of a right of privacy in the Constitution.
Thank you. I wanted to jump in on that one. :-)
Worth repeating.
She needed as savior as much as you and I.
Another example of egalitarianism. No one is more righteous or more wicked than anyone else, except Christ. We're all the same. It is a theological communism akin to Animal Farm.Romans 3:10 As it is written ... There is none that doeth good ... no, not one.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
ANNALEX: The scriptures that assert something similar have a narrower context, and there are scriptural examples of perfection and righteousness besides Jesus.
Oh, dear. And this is where we end up. Thank God for the Reformation.
Post Tenebras, Lux.
""...if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). (Council of Orange: Canon 6)
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