Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
Oh, I must be a Calvinist then. My IQ is just 143 (or at least it was in high school—LOL). Hmmm.
Explain how satan and other angels fell then?
If God made them Fall then God is responsible for satan and evil!
Dear Friend , You are doing exactly what Calvin did. Over-thinking!
Just remember that us statisticians can’t be trusted. ;O)
That would be partial free will. In Hell you cannot LOVE
From Catechism...
1707 "Man, enticed by the Evil One, abused his freedom at the very beginning of history."10 He succumbed to temptation and did what was evil. He still desires the good, but his nature bears the wound of original sin. He is now inclined to evil and subject to error:
1704 The human person participates in the light and power of the divine Spirit. By his reason, he is capable of understanding the order of things established by the Creator. By free will, he is capable of directing himself toward his true good. He finds his perfection "in seeking and loving what is true and good."7
Actually this is not overthinking at all. I have been looking at this problem for 30 years and never been able to figure it out until I stumbled across the Reformed belief. Then it made perfect sense, at least to me.
DISCLAIMER: I will hasten to add that my belief in this matter is strictly my own. No church father that I can find (Catholic or Protestant) has ever held this view. I am currently researching this to see if I am holding a heretical doctrine. However, I am becoming increasingly convinced in this matter that the solution is rather easy than complex.
This was the whole point in the deception of Eve. Eve was confused to seek the wisdom that comes from God; Adam was not. Although both sinned, Adam was the greater transgressor.
There is no such thing as "free will". There is only God's will or sin.
"Partial" free will??? Well, that's a new one. :O)
“”There is no such thing as “free will”. There is only God’s will or sin.””
This and your scripture twisting makes no sense.
It makes humans and the whole angelic world one big game being played by God with Himself.
Without the ability to choose love,everything is forced on us.
From...
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm
Freedom put to the test
396 God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” spells this out: “for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die.”276 The “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”277 symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.
The above Catechism reveals the TRUTH.
Time for work.
I wish you a Blessed day!
What baffles me the most about calvinists thinking is that they don,t give greater respect to Mary because she is the first to receive Jesus and she is a perfect example of total commitment to the will of God
Instead you seem to give greater respect to the mind of John Calvin.
Harley,contemplating on the life of Blessed Mother will draw you closer to God than anything John Calvin ever did.
Try it!
Uh, oh. I’m sunk now...
have you taken your medication today? Use English in correspondence. It goes a long way.
stfassisi, we have been through this before with them. To no avail. There is positively some ".dll" type of file missing.
They will tell you that God pre-ordained Satan to fall along with 1/3 of all angels. And they will say that God is the author of evil, but that He is not evil Himself!
They treat evil as something God actually created!. It is really education to see to what depth this heresy goes, because on the surface even the pious could be deceived that they are but a shade and not of an altogether different kind.
stfassisi to HD: That would be partial free will. In Hell you cannot LOVE...
It is really shocking to see how some separated Christians have been fooled, seeing heaven as "servitude" and Hell as "freedom."
There is nothing free about hell; no one wants to be there!
LOL!!! A reformed Protestant quoting St. James! This is the first!
HD, if God predestined that some shall have the wisdom and other won't, what good is asking?
I agree. The idea that someone has to go to Hell to have a free will is mind boggling to me.
BTW, I was not being serious about the partial free will thing.
StF-This and your scripture twisting makes no sense.
Let's put it this way; what would you rather do God's will or your will?
God created man in his image and established him in his friendship.
God created man for His glory.
I think that's true of most Protestants. I think it's an inappropriate reaction to the overemphasis of the Catholic/Orthodox Church to be perfectly honest.
I know. :)
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. The rich man (in the Rich Man and Lazarrus story) never asked to be removed from hell, only that his thirst would be quenched.
I know people who would rather be miserable and have their own way than be happy and not be in control. SO I can extrapolate that to people who would rather the misery of having their own way eternally than the joy of handing themselves over to God.
Well, I’d say he probably knew he’d never get out of there.
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