Heresy

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Heresies_Heretics/Heresies_Heretics_003.htm ^ | unknown | Fr. John A. Hardon

[stfassisi]

Objectively, therefore, to become a heretic in the strict canonical sense and be excommunicated from the faithful one must deny or question a truth which is taught not merely on the authority of the Church but on the word of God revealed in the Scriptures or sacred tradition. Subjectively a person must recognize his obligation to believe. If he acts in good faith, as is the case with most persons brought up in non-Catholic surroundings, the heresy is only material and implies neither guilt nor sin against faith, though it precludes actual membership in the Catholic Church.

[stfassisi]

Good article from the late Father Harden.

[voiceinthewind]

Father Hardon was wonderful. When I asked him for advice, he was blunt, compassionate, and so very wise. A great man and priest.

[annalex]

It is always useful to define the term. If a had a quarter for each time the distinction between the schism, which we technically have with the Orthodox (although it is discouraged to use such harsh a term), and heresy, of which we accuse the Reformers, is muddled up, I'd be a rich man.

[stfassisi]

As a fellow poster recently said .

When I asked him for advice, he was blunt, compassionate, and so very wise. A great man and priest.

Father Hardon knew that in the Eucharist there is TRUTH in all things.

He did not worry about being politically correct-so to speak

[Salvation]

This looks like a good one!

[bornacatholic]

One great thing about the Early Church Fathers was their rhetorical masculinity in describing and denouncing heresies, heretics and schisms and schismatics. Not for them was the idea there could be a good heresy or a good schism.

We could do a lot worse than to slough off all the modern accretions of political correctness, timidity, and the feminine softness (weakness) in language used when comfronting such evils

[bornacatholic]

St Irenaeus Against Heresies

He shall also judge those who give rise to schisms, who are destitute of the love of God, and who look to their own special advantage rather than to the unity of the Church; and who for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason which occurs to them, cut in pieces and divide the great and glorious body of Christ, and so far as in them lies, [positively] destroy it -- men who prate of peace while they give rise to war, and do in truth strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel. For no reformation of so great importance can be effected by them, as will compensate for the mischief arising from their schism.

St. Augustine....There is nothing more grievous than the sacrilege of schism....there can be no just necessity for destroying the unity of the Church"

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

... CHAPTER VIII.--LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

CHAPTER IX.--HONOUR THE BISHOP.

Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil.

*Pope Benedict is known as a great Patristics Scholar. I hope he cuts loose one day and ends up sounding like St. Ignatius.

[Gamecock]

...it precludes actual membership in the Catholic Church.

Bad news < tounge in cheek>

[HarleyD]

A very interesting article. The Church/church really doesn't care that much any more about heresy. It so medieval. We have downgraded the term "heresy" until it means nothing more than an unorthodox belief. We've evolved into the "Your theology OK; My theology OK" philosophy and woe to those heretics who state otherwise.

Now let's have a group hug while singing, "Jesus loves us, this we know".

[Gamecock]

"Jesus loves us, this we know"
"For the magisterium tells me so"

Seriously, I have more respect for RCs who tell me I'm a heretic than this watered down stuff. At least the hardcore RCs don't mince words.

[HarleyD]

Seriously, I have more respect for RCs who tell me I'm a heretic than this watered down stuff. At least the hardcore RCs don't mince words.

Absolutely. Give me a good ol' Vatican I Catholic any day over the milk toast Vatican II Catholic. :O)

[Iscool]

For the benefit of any lurking potential Christians, I have to say that I wear that heretic moniker quite proudly...

In fact, if I wasn't one, I'd strive to be one...

[Campion]

For the benefit of any lurking potential Christians, I have to say that I wear that heretic moniker quite proudly

So did Dathan and Korah.

[WriteOn]

And now the bad news: heretics can't read the bible. Kind of makes prooftexting obsolete, since what, the 3rd century?

Ask Tertullian: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0311.htm

CHAPTER 15
Heretics not to be allowed to argue out of the Scriptures. The Scriptures, in fact, do not belong to them.

We are therefore come to (the gist of) our position; for at this point we were aiming, and for this we were preparing in the preamble of our address (which we have just completed),--so that we may now join issue on the contention to which our adversaries challenge us. They put forward the Scriptures, and by this insolence of theirs they at once influence some. In the encounter itself, however, they weary the strong, they catch the weak, and dismiss waverers with a doubt. Accordingly, we oppose to them this step above ,all others, of not admitting them to any discussion of the Scriptures.

If in these lie their resources, before they can use them, it ought to be clearly seen to whom belongs the possession of the Scriptures, that none may be admitted to the use thereof who has no title at all to the privilege.

[Gamecock]

Since I'm a heretic anyway, kinda doesn't matter now, does it?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If they're serious about any kind of rapprochement, they need to rescind the anathemas of Trent.

Waiting...waiting...waiting...

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Hi, Alex. Didn't see your name in the heading of us heretics. My apologies. 8~)

[Iscool]

Shhhhh...That's one of those nasty little secrets that gets denied in public...

[Campion]

Ironically enough, Tertullian died a (Montanist) heretic.

(Otherwise, he'd be St. Tertullian.)