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To: HarleyD
Regarding the New Advent article on the Holy Spirit, nowhere does it deny that the Holy Spirit indwells believers. Nor does the Catholic Church. So, your charge in posts #405 and #427 that the Catholic Church does not believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was incorrect.

Regarding the atonement, I've read St. Anselm's Cur Deus Homo, and you are misunderstanding the line in the New Advent article that you underlined. In the New Advent article on the atonement, by "innocent man", it is referring to a mere man, not the incarnate Christ. That can be seen if you read the end of the sentence (which you failed to include in your quotation). That ending reads: "on the ground that in any case this would put the sinner under obligation to his deliverer, and he would thus become the servant of a mere creature." But Christ is not a mere creature.

The Catholic Church nowhere denies the "blood atonement of Christ". Catholics believe that we are reconciled to God through the blood of Christ.

But how about focusing on one thing at a time? Let's resolve this question of how you know now with certainty that you are elect for glory.

-A8

453 posted on 11/22/2006 6:04:53 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8; Forest Keeper
Can you point FK and myself to some concise doctrinal writing that clearly defines the purpose of Holy Spirit from the Catholic perspective? I'm sure we would be appreciate the clarification.

As far as the Atonement, you might have read St. Anselm' Cur Deus Homo but you must not have read newadvent. It was from St. Anselm's writings, in the spirit of the traditions of the fathers, the Church reinvented themselves in regards to the Atonement. The blood atonement is no longer the Catholic belief. Instead they hold to an Orthodox belief that the atonement was only a sacrifice showing love.

I find the article extremely interesting because they say the early church fathers for 1500 years believe in a blood atonement but Anselm came along providing clarification. Even though this wasn't a big deal to the Reformers they went back to the teachings of the early fathers while the Church "progressed". They insinuate this as a reason why Protestantism is bad because they don't have all these "wise" teachers to evolve the Church. HA!

What the article fails to mention is that the atonement wasn't an issue simply because it didn't come up until after the Protestants left. The Protestants are following the original teachings of the atonement in the western church while the Catholics have adopted the Eastern Orthodox position.

We've had this discussion out on the Luther/Eramaus thread with several Catholic, including members of the clergy. I verified what they stated through the newadvent site which clearly states this and I even posted snips. Sorry, but I would like Catholics to understand the official teachings of the Church. It helps all of us in our discussions. The atonement to a Catholic is nothing more than the supreme act of love. Nothing more. Write the Vatican if you don't believe me.

459 posted on 11/22/2006 7:45:03 AM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
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