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PREDESTINATION; LIVE BY GRACE; NOT BY WORKS (WEEK 8)
St. Louis Center for Christian Study ^ | Greg Johnson

Posted on 11/13/2006 11:01:10 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg

If salvation is all of grace -- if God is God and he has chosen us for salvation even though we did nothing to deserve it -- then we ought to live by the grace we have received. Of course, some of you will look at that and say to yourselves, “Yeah, I really need to do better at living by grace. I’ve really been a failure there. I hope God will forgive me again.” If that’s you, you still don’t get it. Go back and re-read the last seventeen pages and (if you’re a believer) remember that you’re one of the elect!

Our hearts so quickly try to relate to God on a works-basis! It’s our pride, really. I’m convinced that that’s the problem with free-will Arminianism. People naturally process it like this: God requires one work from me, to believe. Once I believe, I’ve done my work and deserve heaven. Of course, in more hard-line Arminian circles, it goes a step further. Unless I’m holy enough, I’ll still go to hell, and maybe I’ve even committed the unpardonable sin and will be damned even if I’m sinlessly perfect from here on out. Legalism. Legalism. Legalism. Such a religion is barely recognizable as Christianity.

But Calvinists can fall into legalism just as easily. You see, I understand predestination. I’m a superior Christian. I’ve got all my theological “t”s crossed and my Reformed “i”s dotted. I sure am close to God. Pride is the Presbyterian’s favorite form of legalism, so watch out! But if God really is for us, and if we had nothing to do with that decision -- if even our faith was given to us by the Father -- then there’s no room for boasting. God’s sovereign choice of us leaves us free from pride. It leaves us aware of our brokenness and humble before God, but all the while confident that his eternal purpose will stand, that we will glory in God forever as objects of his saving mercy. As God’s eternal blessing really begins to sink from our heads into our hearts, we see a new freedom that we never would have imagined when we first encountered the raw, holy, sovereign power of God. Among the newfound freedoms:

1. Freedom from shame, guilt & Insecurity

Read Romans 8:28-39. Nothing can separate you from God’s love -- nothing in the past, nothing in the future. No one can stand against you. No one can accuse you. Even bad things (“all things”) are working right now to your benefit, to make you more like Jesus. God didn’t choose you because of your faith, and Jesus is not ashamed of you—even at your worst (Hebrews 2:11). He’s proud to have you in the family, proud to call you brother or sister -- even knowing what he knows. He’s displaying the glory of his mercy, remember. God’s law is no longer your enemy, but a friend. You can have confidence before God.

2. Freedom from destructive Perfectionism

If God really is for you, then you can quit trying to look good. If you’re trying to be good enough for God, he’s not buying it -- he didn’t choose you because of your great faithfulness. If you’re trying to be good enough for other people, don’t bother. God wants to display his mercy -- that means we have to be broken. God’s glory is not displayed by trying to look like you have it all together. Faith is not a work, and even if it were it still wouldn’t earn you any brownie points. Let God be God. If you won’t show your weakness, then others won’t see God’s power displayed in it.

3. Freedom from legalistic man-made rules

Some of the biggest practical opponents to living by grace are those legalistic little rules that we live by. We love to judge other with them -- they make us look good, and help us feel better about ourselves. (Pride again.) Dress this way, not that way. Wear this much makeup, not that much. Work. Don’t work. Home school is God’s way. Public school is God’s way. Christian school is God’s way. Drink. Don’t drink. Smoke. Don’t smoke. Dance. Don’t dance. This is God’s worship style. If we’re all about God’s glory, there’s no room for any of this. Do whatever you do for God’s glory without comparisons. God has freed you from judging others. You don’t understand God’ sovereign grace until you realize you are a beggar who’s been blessed without cause. You had nothing to do with it -- you’re just a receiver.

4. Freedom from Penance

Even repentance can be a sham if we’re trying to approach God with some vestige of self-reliance. Biblical repentance is a freedom we can enjoy daily, while penance is its counterfeit.

Repentance/Penance

Comes with empty hands/Tries to bargain with God

Acknowledges real sin as against God/Makes excuses for sin

Grieves over displeasing God/Grieves over getting caught

Asks for help to do better/Promises to do better

Is willing to publicly confess, if needed/Is too proud to publicly confess

Relies on God's promises to us/Relies on own promises to God

Turns outward, away from self, to God/Turns inward on self

Produces freedom, joy, and confidence/Produces guilty feelings, anxiety

God has obligated himself to receive any repentant sinner who comes to him. Without this realization, true repentance is impossible. Until we realize that God is for us, we cannot truly be for God.


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: christianity; grace; predestination; reformed
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To: P-Marlowe; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg
Therefore election is predicated upon belief. If God set the condition before he created man, and he elects in accordance with that condition, then election is ENTIRELY in accordance with what God wills and not what man wills. We do not elect ourselves. That is God's job. Our job is to hear the gospel and believe on his Son.

You sort of make election sound like an accounting task. :) If salvation is decided by whatever a man's free will response to God's offer is, and election is predicated on that decision, then election consists of no more than God writing down man's decisions in His book. How could that truly be described as "God's sovereign will" in action? God exercises no will here it seems, He is a stenographer. You obviously believe it is more than that, so what does God actually "do" when He "elects" someone? When I think of the word "elect" I think of "choose". If God is simply saying "OK" to everyone who believes, what or whom is God "choosing" when He elects.

681 posted on 11/28/2006 1:34:10 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: P-Marlowe; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; Frumanchu; HarleyD
FK: "I was only speaking of saving grace since I'm not sure what prevenient grace is good for. It seems to be a completely unnecessary step."

Why did God create man in the first place? Why did Jesus need to die on the cross? If men were already elected it "seems an unnecessary step"? It seems....

Well, we have tangible Biblical evidence that God wished to create man, and implement an elaborate plan for the salvation of many of them. However, I'm not sure we have such Biblical evidence for God wishing to give something called prevenient grace to the reprobate. I don't know where in the Bible the subject of prevenient grace is covered, or where it is distinguished from saving grace.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I repeated THIS EXPERIMENT five times. The average answer was that 24,677 angels can dance SAFELY on the head of a pin. There were a couple of near-brawls over space, as I pretty much let them dance however they wanted, but we worked it out. It was a fun experiment, but I am definitely sick of that song though. :)

682 posted on 11/28/2006 2:51:16 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; xzins
However, if the jailer had been able to ask God directly, then the answer might very well have been "Nothing! You can't do anything". :)

Was not what Paul uttered the inspired Word of God?

Are you saying that Paul's response was a different answer than God's?

683 posted on 11/28/2006 3:28:50 AM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg

Thanks, HarleyD. There are many more such references.
It isn't right to turn choice into an illusion.


684 posted on 11/28/2006 5:14:48 AM PST by cornelis
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To: Forest Keeper; P-Marlowe; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; Frumanchu
The average answer was that 24,677 angels can dance SAFELY on the head of a pin.

LOLOL! Was that with or without flaming swords?

685 posted on 11/28/2006 5:15:17 AM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
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To: cornelis; Dr. Eckleburg

Those are the only three references in scripture that talks about "free will" together. There are no more references in scripture about "free will".

No one is suggesting man does not make choices but we will never freely run to Him. As soon as Adam and Eve sinned, their natural response was to hide from God until God called them.


686 posted on 11/28/2006 5:25:00 AM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
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To: HarleyD

Well, three will do. But if you go that route, there are zero references to "trinity" and absolutely nothing about "homoousia."


687 posted on 11/28/2006 5:45:30 AM PST by cornelis
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To: Forest Keeper

Does the Bible contain instructions on how I can be saved?


688 posted on 11/28/2006 5:54:07 AM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Forest Keeper; P-Marlowe
what prevenient grace is good for.

It is God's revealing both His existence and His goodness to humanity so that they are without excuse. It is the beginning of His drawing love. Because of it the justice of God is undeniable. All were drawn. All had the price paid for their sins. Those who resist have no excuse.

This implies to me that God can choose Fred, but then Fred can say "No".

If Fred is among the elect, then Fred will not always resist. Resistance occurs during the drawing....if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me. Salvation is by grace through faith. Lostness results from resistance.

My sense is that faith is gifted at the same time as salvation.

689 posted on 11/28/2006 5:59:35 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins; Forest Keeper
It is God's revealing both His existence and His goodness to humanity so that they are without excuse. It is the beginning of His drawing love. Because of it the justice of God is undeniable. All were drawn. All had the price paid for their sins. Those who resist have no excuse.

That God would offer salvation to all who believe is the ultimate act of graciousness. that man would reject this offer is the ultimate act of ingratitude.

Calvin:

Yet I approve of the common reading, that He alone bore the punishment of many, because the guilt of the whole world was laid upon Him. It is evident from other passages...that 'many' sometimes denotes 'all'...That, then, is how our Lord Jesus bore the sins and iniquities of many. But in fact, this word 'many' is often as good as equivalent to 'all'. And indeed, our Lord Jesus was offered to all the world. For it is not speaking of three or four when it says: 'God so loved the world, that He spared not His only Son.' But yet we must notice what the Evangelist adds in this passage: 'That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but obtain eternal life.' Our Lord Jesus suffered for all and there is neither great nor small who is not inexcusable today, for we can obtain salvation in Him. Unbelievers who turn away from Him and who deprive themselves of Him by their malice are today doubly culpable. For how will they excuse their ingratitude in not receiving the blessing in which they could share by faith? And let us realize that if we come flocking to our Lord Jesus Christ, we shall not hinder one another and prevent Him being sufficient for each of us...Let us not fear to come to Him in great numbers, and each one of us bring his neighbours, seeing that He is sufficient to save us all. Sermons on Isaiah 53, pp. 136, 141-4

Though the angel only addresses the shepherds, he means that the message of salvation which he brings them extends farther, not for their ears alone, but for others also to hear. Understand that the joy was open to all the people, for it was offered to all without distinction. For He is not the God of this one or of that, but He had promised Christ to the whole family of Abraham. That, in great measure, the Jews have lost the joy that was theirs to hold, resulted from their failure to believe. Today also, God invites all men alike to salvation through the Gospel, but the world's ingratitude makes only a few enjoy the grace, which is set out equally for all. While the joy, then, has been confined to a small number, in respect of God, it is called universal. And though the angel is speaking only of the chosen people, yet now with the partition wall gone the same tidings are presented to the whole human race. Comment on Luke 2:10

Hitherto he addressed the Jews alone, as if to them alone salvation belonged, but now he extends his discourse farther. He invites the whole world to the hope of salvation, and at the same time brings a charge of ingratitude against all the nations, who, being devoted to their own errors, purposely avoided, as it were, the light of life; for what could be more base than to reject deliberately their own salvation?...the Lord...invites all without exception to come to him...Now, we must 'look to him' with the eye of faith, so as to embrace the salvation which is exhibited to all through Christ; for 'God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him may not perish.' (John 3:16). Comment on Isaiah 45:22

690 posted on 11/28/2006 6:13:10 AM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe

Can I use your Calvin quote for tomorrow's "Devotion moment for (moderate) CTA's?

It is so telling to hear our brother, John Calvin, say that "many" means "all," because John 3:16 says that God loved "the world."


691 posted on 11/28/2006 6:18:23 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins

Even more telling is the manipulation of what Calvin says into an implication he does not make.


692 posted on 11/28/2006 7:35:31 AM PST by Frumanchu (Historical Revisionism: When you're tired of being on the losing side of history.)
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To: Frumanchu

Opinions are like............

:>)


693 posted on 11/28/2006 7:46:51 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins

Yes, and some stink much more than other :)


694 posted on 11/28/2006 7:48:05 AM PST by Frumanchu (Historical Revisionism: When you're tired of being on the losing side of history.)
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To: Forest Keeper
If God is simply saying "OK" to everyone who believes, what or whom is God "choosing" when He elects.

Amen. Succinct and correct.

695 posted on 11/28/2006 8:48:34 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

If a question is succinct and correct, does that mean all the answers are succinct and correct?


696 posted on 11/28/2006 9:38:59 AM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis; HarleyD

So earlier you criticized me as being "circumlocutory."

Now you carp on "succinct."

Go figure.


697 posted on 11/28/2006 9:58:46 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: HarleyD; cornelis; Forest Keeper; Frumanchu; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; ...
Those are the only three references in scripture that talks about "free will" together. There are no more references in scripture about "free will".

Absolutely correct. And even those three verses need to be looked at in context, especially if we are considering "free will" to be what some have called "a gift from God."

In the King James Version, the Leviticus quote doesn't even have "free will"; it says "of your own will."

"And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will." -- Leviticus 19:5.

The King James refers us to Lev. 7:16 for a fuller understanding of what this means. And in Lev. 7:16 we find that the Lord is telling Moses when to make offerings.

"But if the sacrifice of his offering be a vow, or a voluntary offering, it shall be eaten the same day that he offereth his sacrifice: and on the morrow also the remainder of it shall be eaten." -- Lev. 7:16

So we have learned here the Lord is telling Moses in Lev. 19:5 that a peace offering may be made any time, "at your own will."

Nothing regarding our discussion of "free will" vs. "God's will."

The point is made even more clearly in the two verses in Ezra. Here we find the verses are part of a letter written to Ezra from the king of Persia, Ar-tax-erx-es.

"I (Ar-tax-erx-es) make a decree that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee...

And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the free will offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of the God which is in Jerusalem..." -- Ezra 7:13,16

So what do we have here? We have the king of Persia telling his subjects they are to "willingly" make silver and gold offerings to God, free from the coersion of the state.

Hmmm. From these scant three verses we do not find any trace of what is commonly referred to today as "free will."

Amazingly, all three verses are from the Old Testament. And in the Old Testament we learn that no "offering" will remedy the curse of original sin, and that all the offerings in the world only reveal man's inability to abide by God's law.

We find no mention of "free will" in the New Testament. Instead, we find on nearly every page a paraphrase of what Paul declared so clearly...

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Philippians 2:13

Hope this wasn't too "circumlocutory" for you, Cornelis.

698 posted on 11/28/2006 10:09:28 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

One question at a time.


699 posted on 11/28/2006 10:33:08 AM PST by cornelis
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To: P-Marlowe; xzins; Forest Keeper
If you would like to use our friends quotes of John Calvin for your devotions, I would suggest including his full quotes rather than chopping them off. For example

I cannot verify the other references.
700 posted on 11/28/2006 10:37:15 AM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
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