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Short answer: having been Cathlic and having been around Catholics is no guarantee that you know what the Catholic Church teaches. (Or that I know what the Catholic Church teaches.)

Which is why I refer to Cardinal Gibbons and his colleagues for clarification when I could find no justification for Sunday worship in the Bible.

The reason for having "even an academic discussion regarding the Scriptural basis etc." is that, as has been said more than once on this thread, doctrine arises not from any creature or any kind but through the Scriptures AND the magisterium and is conveyed through traditions, among which the Scriptures are chief.

Yes, the true Catholic view is that the scriptures are a tradition handed down by the church, the church coming before the scriptures. I thought I said this already.... a few times.

I meant what I said about how Doctrine is not derived from Any one source of undefined temrs, axiomata and postulates. It's not that kind of thing. It's kind of like what Aristotle says (or, rather, implies) early in the Nichomachean ethics about different sorts of subject matter get different sorts of argument. Consequently I am not prepared to agree, and I don't think the Church is prepared to agree, with the proposition that doctrine supcercedes Scripture.

What's the deal with all that exclusionary language? Common men need not apply?

If doctrine does not supercede scripture, then show me the scripture for Sunday worship, Christmas, Easter, Mary worship, the trinity, et. al.

I don't know what it means that my Spanish version of the Catechism was in my ammunition bag.

tal vez, estaba haciendo "canonized" :)

Consequently, I do not see that we think that Scripture is superceded by dogma. And I do not, in my own life, find that believing the incomprehensible mess that the church is (on another thread I compared it to an avalanche - and the Catholics there approved the metaphor) means I place my trust so much in IT (or her, or whatever) as in God.

My faith is quite tidy and easy to comprehend. If I had made such a comment, I would be getting lambasted. Maybe that was the point of this thread. Hmmmm.

So, if you base your approach to the question on the idea that the Catholics think that Scripture is superceded, I think a lot of Catholics won't be able to find the necessary agreed upon principles or shared ground upon which to build a dialog. Wed have to go back further to trusting in the mercy of God.

I thought the thread was about what the Doctrine was, not about where it came from or whether it was any good. So I didn't have much problem with the title.

Well, we'll never know what the thread was supposed to be about since the troll who posted it is nowhere to be found. Hack, the mods even removed the thread from the troll's home page.

I invite (implore) other Catholics to tell me how inadequate (and in what particular way the inadequacy is manifested) my account of this aspect of Catholicism is.

You say your faith is tidy and easy to comprehend.

I do not understand or comprehend human beings, and they are anything but tidy. I place my trust in Christ and in the saving work of Christ who is a man and more than a man, and therefore messy and incomprehensible. Regular people are incomprehensible. How much more the incarnate Son of God!

How can there be any disagreement about the sequence in time of the Church and the Scriptures? There are writings. Somebody wrote them. The Church recognized, over a period of time, that these writings were special. Do you have an alternative history in which the Bible precedes the people who wrote the books, read them, gathered them, and set the collection apart? I don't see that that means the Scriptures are superceded. And I don't see that Sunday worship means the Scriptures are superceded. Once you have Pentecost and the Apostolic Conference saying "It seems good to us and to the Holy Spirit" then the top is blown off a lot of things, and you can count on its being a heck of a ride from here on out.

To the best of my recollection what you said was that RCs said we "created" the Scriptures. That's different.

And if you are going to insist that Catholics "worship" Mary then you are a victim of a lie. I don't see how you could make such comments and then complain about being handled roughly.

I don't get the remark about exclusionary language.

Most Catholics have no clue what their religion is all about. God is not merciful to willful disobedience, so many live happily and purposefully in blissful ignorance and delegate their salvation to the clergy.Yep and a WHOLE Lot of Protestants don't know what Catholicism is about either, but they are so sure that they DO know that they simply can't learn what we do teach. They don't want to know, they want to tell us instead.

Threads I've started don't appear on my home page, so I don't see what policymaker's home page has to do with whether or not he is a troll. In any event, the question is interesting, IMHO. I think the best way to see what the thread was about is to read the initial post. I did so. It was a question about the doctrine of the Trinity.