St. Peter and Rome

Catholic Exchange.com ^ | 11-15-04 | Amy Barragree

[Salvation]

St. Peter and Rome

11/15/04

Dear Catholic Exchange:

Why did St. Peter establish the Church in Rome?

Ed

Dear Ed,

Peace in Christ!

We do not know why Peter went to Rome. The Church has always maintained, based on historical evidence, that Peter went to Rome, but has never taught why this happened. In speculating on this matter, there are two primary considerations.

First, at the time of Jesus and the early Church, the Roman Empire controlled the lands around the Mediterranean, a large portion of what is now Europe, and most of what is now called the Middle East. Rome was one of the biggest, most influential cities in the Western world. It was the center of political authority, economic progress, cultural expression, and many other aspects of life in the Roman Empire. This may have played a role in Peter’s decision to go to Rome.

Second, Jesus promised the Apostles that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide them. Scripture shows Peter following the promptings of the Holy Spirit throughout his ministry. It somehow fits into God’s providence and eternal plan that His Church be established in Rome. Peter may have gone to Rome for no other reason than that is where the Holy Spirit wanted him.

Historical evidence does show that Peter did go to Rome and exercised his authority as head of the Apostles from there. The earliest Christians provided plenty of documentation in this regard.

Among these was St. Irenæus of Lyons, a disciple of St. Polycarp who had received the Gospel from the Apostle St. John. Near the end of his life St. Irenæus mentioned, in his work Against Heresies (c. A.D. 180-199), the work of Peter and Paul in Rome:

Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church (Book 3, Chapter 1, verse 1).

The African theologian Tertullian tells us that Peter and Paul both died in Rome in Demurrer Against the Heretics (c. A.D. 200):

Come now, if you would indulge a better curiosity in the business of your salvation, run through the apostolic Churches in which the very thrones of the Apostles remain still in place; in which their own authentic writings are read, giving sound to the voice and recalling the faces of each.... [I]f you are near to Italy, you have Rome, whence also our authority [i.e., in Carthage] derives. How happy is that Church, on which the Apostles poured out their whole doctrine along with their blood, where Peter endured a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned in a death like John’s [i.e., the Baptist], where the Apostle John, after being immersed in boiling oil and suffering no hurt, was exiled to an island.

Tertullian was certainly not the only ancient author who testified that Peter was crucified in Rome. An ancient, orthodox historical text known as the "Acts of Saints Peter and Paul" elaborates on the preaching and martyrdom of the two Apostles in Rome. The dating of this document is difficult, but historians cited in the Catholic Encyclopedia placed its probable origins between A.D. 150-250.

One of the earliest thorough histories of the Church was Bishop Eusebius of Cæsarea’s Ecclesiastical History. Most of this work was written before Constantine became emperor in A.D. 324, and some portions were added afterward. Eusebius quotes many previous historical documents regarding Peter and Paul’s travels and martyrdom in Rome, including excellent excerpts from ancient documents now lost, like Presbyter Gaius of Rome’s "Disputation with Proclus" (c. A.D. 198-217) and Bishop Dionysius of Corinth’s "Letter to Soter of Rome" (c. A.D. 166-174). Penguin Books publishes a very accessible paperback edition of Eusebius’s history of the Church, and most libraries will probably own a copy as well.

For more ancient accounts of Peter’s presence in Rome, see the writings of the Church Fathers, which are published in various collections. Jurgens’s Faith of the Early Fathers, volumes 1-3, contains a collection of patristic excerpts with a topical index which apologists find very useful (Liturgical Press). Hendrickson Publishers and Paulist Press both publish multi-volume hardcover editions of the works of the Church Fathers. Penguin Books and St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press publish a few works of the Fathers in relatively inexpensive paperback editions.

More treatments of Petrine questions may be found in Stephen K. Ray’s Upon This Rock (Ignatius); Jesus, Peter, & the Keys by Butler, Dahlgren, and Hess (Queenship); Patrick Madrid’s Pope Fiction (Basilica); and in the Catholic Answers tracts “Was Peter In Rome?” and “The Fathers Know Best: Peter In Rome.”

Please feel free to call us at 1-800-MY FAITH or email us with any further questions on this or any other subject. If you have found this information to be helpful, please consider a donation to CUF to help sustain this service. You can call the toll-free line, visit us at www.cuf.org, or send your contribution to the address below. Thank you for your support as we endeavor to “support, defend, and advance the efforts of the teaching Church.”

United in the Faith,

Amy Barragree
Information Specialist
Catholics United for the Faith
827 North Fourth Street
Steubenville, OH 43952
800-MY-FAITH (800-693-2484)

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[Mad Dawg]

You are once again displaying your eagerness to say what is not so AND to show your unwillingness or inability to reason. It is your conjectures with which I disagree.

Are you here to present a point of view or for what?

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.

[Mad Dawg]

May I assume that knife has two edges? Instead of receiving a reply to my argument I was just told I had contempt for Scripture, the Fathers, Scholars and the rest of it.

[Uncle Chip]

The Jews were responsible for the oracles of God. They were entrusted into their hands. Anyone from the earliest of days knew who was entrusted with the words of God and where to find them, if they really wanted to. Those that wanted to, found them as God led them to them.

The more important question is how will those be saved who have the Bible, and yet ignore it, deride it, allegorize it, and interpret away its meaning into theological nonsense?

[Religion Moderator]

That Religion Forum guideline applies to every poster here.

I post the warning when I first see a discussion turning personal - but I do not always have the time to read the whole thread. So to all posters on this thread and every thread on the Religion Forum:

Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.

[Lil Flower]

Perhaps the words of someone else would be more appropriate for you, like Huckleberry Hound posted by Uncle Chip

And you consider Mad Dawg as the one getting personal. Wow.

[Lil Flower]

I post the warning when I first see a discussion turning personal

I believe that took place at post 679

[stfassisi]

Do you understand that ALL love is from God and that the devil CANNOT love?

[Religion Moderator]

I post the warning when I first see it turning personal, Lil Flower, not when you first see it turning personal. If you want to help, Freepmail me when you see a debate turn personal.

Besides, on a Religion Forum that is mostly Christian, it shouldn't matter because a) two wrongs do not make a right and b) the righteous turn the other cheek.

[Lil Flower]

Besides, on a Religion Forum that is mostly Christian, it shouldn't matter because a) two wrongs do not make a right and b) the righteous turn the other cheek.

Can't argue with that. Sometimes turning the other cheek is hard to do, but you are right, that is what Christians are called to do.

[Salvation]

**Perhaps the words of someone else would be more appropriate for you, like Huckleberry Hound.**

What about discussing the posted topic of St. Peter and Rome instead? Just a suggestion.

[Diego1618]

Well, we know that our Lord and Saviour told them in [Matthew 10:5-6] not to go among the Gentiles or Samaritans but go to the "Lost Sheep of the House of Israel". Diego There is NO suggestion whatsoever, "not even of any kind" in the text. It is an assumption. Mad Dawg

Matthew 15:24

Do the words of our Lord and Saviour qualify as text? [John 21:15-17] pretty much bears this out.

[Uncle Chip]

Yes! And John wrote a lot about that in his gospel and epistles which were a response to the heresies spreading throughout the church aat that time form the disciples of Simon Magus, anticipating the coming of Marcion, a disciple of Simon Magus, who maligned the Father of Jesus, and mocked Him, and tried to drive a theological wedge between them. But John wrote that One cannot have the Father without the Son and the Son without the Father, for the love of the one is entwined with the love of the other.

Remember though the words of Paul to the Corinthians:

"Love rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth" [I Cor 13:4]. Where there is no truth, there can be no love of God

[stfassisi]

Give up on this simom magus theory,it is NOT grounded in LOVE and you know it!
Excerpt
On Pentecost Sunday, the Jews and proselytes gathered in Jerusalem were attracted to the cenacle when “suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a violent wind, and it filled the whole house where the disciples were staying” (2,2). This experience plus the gift of tongues prepared the souls of those several thousand to receive the grace of faith and to be baptized as the first fruits of the Catholic Church. Examined apologetically, it may be asked whether the natives and visitors in Jerusalem would ever have approached the cenacle and thus placed themselves under the proximate influence of the Holy Spirit, except for the unusual sound from heaven? The answer is given by the context: “When this sound was heard, the multitude gathered” (2,6). More than once in the Old Testament, the sound of a mighty wind was the heavenly sign of a special presence of God, who walks upon the wings of the winds (Ps. 103,3, and 3 Kgs. 19,11). Therefore what first drew the people to the house where the Apostles were assembled was a physical miracle; on arrival at the place they witnessed the gift of tongues, a miracle in the intellectual order; followed in turn by the inspired sermon of St. Peter, itself a miracle of moral courage; and finally the conversion, when “they who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls” (2,41).

What happened in Jerusalem was repeated in Samaria. The hitherto unfriendly natives now “with one accord gave heed to what was said by Philip, listening to him.” The narrative immediately explains why this took place: “. . . seeing the miracles that he worked. For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, went out of many possessed persons, and many paralytics and cripples were cured. So there was great joy in that city,” which prepared the ground for the humble acceptance of the Gospel (8, 6-8). Particularly important about the miracles worked by Philip is the ready credence which they evoked in the Samaritans, as contrasted with the demoniac prodigies that Simon Magus had earlier performed in that country. St. Luke makes an issue of this contrast:

A man named Simon had previously been practicing magic in that city and astounding the people of Samaria, claiming to be something great; and all from least to greatest listened to him, saying: “This man is the power of God, which is called great.” And they gave heed to him because for a long time he had bewitched them with his sorceries. But when they believed Philip as he preached the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women (8, 9-12).
Not only the people, but Simon himself was so impressed “at the sight of the signs and exceedingly great miracles being wrought,” that he also believed and was baptized (8,13). The subsequent history of Simon Magus who wished to buy the spiritual gifts coming to those who received the Holy Ghost, further emphasizes the transcendent character of the apostolic miracles in their ability to convert not only ordinary souls but also those who were formerly charmed by diabolical prodigies and even the very sorcerers themselves.
from
http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Miracles/Miracles_004.htm

Excerpt;
There have been over 100 heresies since Christ founded His Church. The first heretics were called the Simonians. They were the followers of Simon Magus, a magician of Apostolic times. He is called the Father of Heretics, because he was the first heretic. He originally went to Peter and the Apostles, to purchase from them, what he thought was magic. He told them he would give them money for the secret on how to cure the sick people. The incident is recorded in the Acts of the Apostles. Later Simon Magus was converted and baptized, but he recanted back into his old heresy and died, trying to jump off a high tower. Besides these imagined powers, he did teach heresy. He denied free will, and his followers taught that the world was created by angels. They believed in the transmigration of the souls, an idea being promoted today, especially by the actress Shirley McClaine. They denied the humanity of Jesus Christ. The Corinthians another group of heretics during this time, denied that God was the creator of the world and they denied the divinity of Christ. This all took place after Christ was crucified and ascended to heaven.
from
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/DoorModernismGreatestofallHeresies.html

[Uncle Chip]

Were the teachings of Simon Magus also reflected in those of his disciple Marcion, as Father Irenaeus tells us they were?

[stfassisi]

Simon Magus had more in common with Luther and Calvin with his denial of free will then he did with the Catholic Church.

Enough of this foolish crusade you,re on!

[Uncle Chip]

Is there any literature anywhere that speaks of one who is to come again who was crucified upside down under Nero?

[jo kus]

Uncle Chip wrote: "There is one thing throughout human history that has saved people without fail and that is the Word of God. Those who had it, believed it, and acted on it are all in a better place now. And if one doesn't have the Word of God, then he doesn't have Jesus Christ either -- period."

A false dichotomy that undercuts God's saving plan, a relationship with man, down to a book. The Word of God that saves is NOT the Bible, it is the Word of God as defined by John 1:1. Thus, the Bible, strictly speaking, doesn't save anyone. The Bible doesn't, by itself, have any power to move man to obey God. It is God's abiding presence within a responsive man that saves:

"He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12

Very simple. If one Loves, the Word of God dwells within that person. A man is "saved" not because he can read the Bible, but because of God's presence within the man... The Word of God is not about letters, but God Himself.

stfassisi wrote: Joe, I hope you don't mind me using this?

Not at all! Thanks for the ping.

Regards

[HarleyD]

Can you state for certain that the doctrine that we know as replacement theology, which allegorizes away the words of the prophets of the Old Testament, did not come down to us through Marcion?

The doctrine of replacement theology does not allegorizes away the words of the prophets. It simply states what Paul states in Roman 11. We (Gentiles) are grafted into the branch of Israel. That means we have the same rights and heritage as our blessed Jewish believers. King David is an spiritual ancestor of ours (once removed). This isn't an allegory but a simple fact foretold by our Jewish forefathers. About the only thing you can say about the term "replacement theology", is that it's poorly named for we don't replace anyone. Instead we are grafted into something.

Likewise, Jews who fail to believe in Christ have a fearful punishment awaiting them; not the blessed promises of Abraham. The writer of Hebrews is very clear about those who deny the Son:

Hbr 10:29-31 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Marcion wished to do away with the Old Testament. Paul want to point back to it and say Abraham is the father of all who have faith. We should be proud of our heritage of faith and rightfully Marcion was pointed out to be the heretic that he was by the Church fathers.

[Uncle Chip]

Can you separate a man from his word? Can you separate Jesus from His word and receive Him without also receiving His word?