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To: bornacatholic

I don't know what Catholicism you grew up with, but mine sure wasn't formal, legalistic and devoid of a personal relationship with Our Lord. Nor do I recall that we were urged to adopt that type of relationship.

Everybody, from cloistered nuns to the little old lady in the back pew conversing with Our Lady to Father reading his breviary, knew what it was all about. The problem was that the ill-advised "reforms" that followed Vatican II took away the structure that supported all this and even condemned the people who practiced it. I once remember hearing the new, improved Fr. Bob (generic term - I don't remember his actual name) announce that the Church had moved beyond the Rosary - which was the standard Biblical/devotional reflection and prayer that had sustained generations of Catholics - because the "Church" (his, at least), no longer approved of private, non-collective prayer.

There was an excellent article in First Things last month by Joseph Bottum, "When the Swallows Come Back to Capistrano," which described the destruction of the intricate "nests" of Catholic piety and religious life by the out of control, misunderstood and misused trends that came out of Vatican II. I don't agree with all his conclusions, but I think he was very right about the fact that we had a rich and diverse world of very deep piety, combined with practices that kept it alive, which was somehow destroyed almost overnight, and that this destruction was is what sent Catholics fleeing and drove the "swallows" away from "Capistrano."


9 posted on 10/22/2006 6:03:27 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius; bornacatholic
I don't know what Catholicism you grew up with, but mine sure wasn't formal, legalistic and devoid of a personal relationship with Our Lord.

I'll second that.

And we moved fairly often when I was a kid, so it wasn't just one parish.

I went to Mass yesterday morning, N.O. of course. Took about 30 minutes. Even with a substantial homily.

11 posted on 10/22/2006 6:22:21 AM PDT by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: livius
I don't know what Catholicism you grew up with..

*You do if your read the post you are responding to.

27 posted on 10/22/2006 10:04:02 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: livius

"I don't know what Catholicism you grew up with, but mine sure wasn't formal, legalistic and devoid of a personal relationship with Our Lord. Nor do I recall that we were urged to adopt that type of relationship. "

And I would add that the saints through the ages surely were not like that either (formal, legalistic, etc.).


35 posted on 10/22/2006 11:35:46 AM PDT by ducdriver ("Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance." GKC)
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To: livius; bornacatholic

I think there is veracity in both your observations. I recollect both experiences. V's wife.


59 posted on 10/22/2006 7:03:52 PM PDT by ventana
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