[Antioch]

Well we know what Fr. Francis' mind is on the subject. He has also been critical of the new Mass translation, Liturgiam Authenticam which demands that translators stick closely to the Latin originals of liturgical texts. He states: "Liturgiam Authenticam is a form of Western Colonialism masquerading as ecclesial unity. It doesn't reflect fruit of 35 years of liturgical experience after Vatican II."It wants to wipe them out."

He seems to be bothered by the Real Presence too: "There's more to the Real Presence than the Eucharist." Let’s not confine the Real Presence. While Christ’s presence in the Eucharist is central to our identity as Catholic Christians, we risk impoverishing our rich tradition by an exclusive focus on Christ’s presence under the appearance of bread and wine.

If the Universal Indult is received, there will be thousands of protestations of horror and complaints about disunity and the cost. These will be coming largely from liberals who's emotional volatility makes reading to the end of any church document difficult. Once they finally do get it that the celebration of the Latin Mass will be voluntary, they will complain that the celebration of a Latin Mass will be divisive and destroy the Church. (despite the Novus Ordo Mass being instrumental in driving half of Catholics from their churches in the last 40 years.

[Wonder Warthog]

"...despite the Novus Ordo Mass being instrumental in driving half of Catholics from their churches in the last 40 years."

The "Novus Ordo" had squat to do with Catholics leaving the Church. The culprit behind THAT problem is the absolute collapse of catechesis (see "Cathechisms and Controversies" by Msgr. Werner for "whodunit"). By this time, two whole generations of Catholics are totally uneducated in what it means to be Catholic.

[bornacatholic]

.. if a small group of faithful are attached to it, and if wider access might bring some of them back into communion with the church, why not?

The reference is to the followers of the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who broke with Rome in 1988 in part over the question of the older Mass. Members of his Society of St. Pius X are conventionally numbered at perhaps one and a half million worldwide.

*This makes no sense. They already have the Mass and while it is illicit, and while they illicility operate in the Jurisdiction of legitimate Bishops, I see no reason to accomodate this protestant cult. They don't desire accomodation. They desire the Living Magisterium surrender to their hatreds and heresies.

If anything, the Pope should issue a warning that he considers anyone who attends one illcit sspx liturgy shall incur an automatic excommunication. Then, POpe Benedict could pick a date, say May 15 (Feast of St. Dymphna), and declare that any in the schism who have not reconciled with the Catholic Church by then will be formally and publicly excommunicated en masse and no further talks will be held with the schism. It is LONG past time to stop pretending the schism is salvagable.

Fellay teaches the Normative Mass is evil. Fellay teaches Vatican Two is heretical. Fellay teaches the Jews are cursed. He is clearly a heretic riven with antisemtism and insanity and it just makes no sense to try and make a deal with such a man. Any deal with such a man will be as unreliable as all the former deals made with lefevbre. lefevbre could not be counted upon to keep his word either. Like schismatic father, like heretical son.

[siunevada]

Most Vatican officials argue that the number of Catholics likely to seek out the old Mass is relatively small

If we have to "seek out" a Mass, that seems to presume that it wouldn't be easily available.

"There's more to the Real Presence than the Eucharist."

Hmmmm. He's being sloppy with that term, intentionally using it in a manner in which it has not been used by the teachers of the Church.

"This presence is called 'real' - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be 'real' too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present."203
203 Paul VI, MF 39.

[NYer]

“People are tired of not knowing what they’re going to find” when they go to Mass

Bears repeating!!!

[B Knotts]

So much handwringing over the possibility that someone, somewhere might celebrate a Mass according to traditional rubrics...yet, those with legitimate concerns about blatantly illicit liturgies are largely ignored by these same people.

[Salvation]

**If the Universal Indult is received, there will be thousands of protestations of horror and complaints about disunity and the cost.**

What do you see as the "cost"? Loss of members? That would be one I would cite, and I am not a flaming libe

[Salvation]

and I am not a flaming liberal.

[narses]

“The bishop has to be able to make decisions about the liturgical life of his diocese,” Bishop William Skylstad of Spokane,...

Thus spake the man who has REFUSED the Indult in spite of a HUGE Latin Mass community here. He also led us into bankruptcy and now a Federal Court rules the Diocese as Bp. Bill spends the cash to zero, beggaring the schools and the retirement funds for the priests.

[Frank Sheed]

“We’re a church of unity and of common worship,” Skylstad said.

Man, he's got that right. Just look at the UNITY! The link shows how unified we now are!

Francis

[TradicalRC]

Most Vatican officials argue that the number of Catholics likely to seek out the old Mass is relatively small, less than one percent of the total Catholic population, and hence that the impact of broader permission would be limited.

Seeing as the total Catholic population is approximately 1 billion, that seems kind of significant. Nevertheless, Christ said He would leave the 99 sheep for the sake of the one lost sheep.

[irishjuggler]

Aside from the Mass itself, will priests also be expected to offer other sacraments according to the pre-Vatican II rites, such as funerals, weddings, and baptisms? If many priests lack familiarity with the older Mass, even fewer would feel at ease with more “occasional” sacraments; • Will liturgical preparation in seminaries need to be revised? “If there is going to be a universal indult, then seminaries would feel honor-bound to offer courses to prepare priests to celebrate both rites,” Francis said.


Among the most popular anti-Tridentine arguments seems to be this idea that there simply aren't enough priests left who know now to celebrate the Tridentine Mass. IMO, this is an incredibly lame argument. Ironically, ten years ago, such an argument might have actually made more sense. Now, however, we're in the internet age. How hard would it be for the USCCB to put together an instructional website on the topic that could get Tridentine-challenged priests up to speed in a few days or even hours?

[Dajjal]

Bumpus ad summum