Replies

Thank you for your reply!

The answer that no one has ever given us Calvinists around here is why do some respond and some don't?

Willfulness.

The verse you provided does not answer that question, but rather how is one saved.

To the contrary, “hear my words, and believe not” – “rejecteth me, and receiveth not” are willful, i.e. voluntary as compared to involuntary.

The above verse is an outward call. Those who God foreordained for His own purpose will hear that and respond with faith. Those who are not foreordained will think it is foolish.

Romans 8:30 And those whom he predestined [God choose us] he also called,[ the verse you cite] and those whom he called he also justified,[He calls, he justifies] and those whom he justified he also glorified.[We will be at home with Him one day].

Predestination and free will are not mutually exclusive (emphasis mine).

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13

Romans 8 etc. should be read altogether. It exhorts us to follow the leading of the Spirit and not the carnal man (free will.) It also speaks of predestination. Both are true.

THANKS A-G. Wonderful as usual.

Calvinist: The answer that no one has ever given us Calvinists around here is why do some respond and some don't?

A-G: Willfulness.

Qx: INDEED. Though, I suppose one could reply with fingers in cheek . . . BECAUSE WE HAVE NO CHOICE--ODD A CALVINIST WOULD ASK INSTEAD OF ASSUME THAT WE ARE 100% DETERMINED! LOL.

QX: My question to Calvinists . . . WHY do Calvinists ignore the Armenian Scriptures? At least some of us hereon acknowledge a BOTH-AND in Scripture. What's so hard about that for Calvinists to never seem to manage wrapping their constructions on reality around THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD on that score? I believe the answer, to be observed in eternity will turn out to be much more psychological than theological.

Qx: I think that position is UNSCRIPTURAL; and . . . deadly to those who are not yet sensitive enough to Holy Spirit to think things through with His guidance to arrive at the truly BOTH/AND Biblical position.
A-G: To the contrary, “hear my words, and believe not” – “rejecteth me, and receiveth not” are willful, i.e. voluntary as compared to involuntary.

Calvinist: The above verse is an outward call. Those who God foreordained for His own purpose will hear that and respond with faith. Those who are not foreordained will think it is foolish.

Qx: What a bald-faced ASSUMPTION, PRESUMPTION, EXTRAPOLATION, INFERENCE UNSUPPORTED by the text.

Romans 8:30 And those whom he predestined [God choose us] he also called,[ the verse you cite] and those whom he called he also justified,[He calls, he justifies] and those whom he justified he also glorified.[We will be at home with Him one day].

A-G: Predestination and free will are not mutually exclusive (emphasis mine).

Qx: Indeed--Dr Walter Martin's computer analogy with a computer as vast as the known multiverse . . . wherein at the level of the programmer . . . things are 'predetermined' in some unknown set of senses . . . and the programmer certainly has free will to adjust the program to achieve His goals . . . but at the level of finite beings in our time/space dimensionality . . . the choices are authentic choices with authentic accountability . . . I think that analogy is probably one amongst several that could be construed to be fairly accurate representations of how God has set things up.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13

A-G: Romans 8 etc. should be read altogether. It exhorts us to follow the leading of the Spirit and not the carnal man (free will.) It also speaks of predestination. Both are true.