Protests that predestination should not be compared to strong determinism – because one is according to God’s will and the other is dumb, blind chance are neither accurate nor relevant.
Strong determinism is also heralded by Deists who most certainly do believe it was God’s will, that He had a purpose – but they believe He has had nothing further to do with Creation, He is “out of the picture”. They would say in effect “Everything God does is perfect and with a perfect Creation, what is left to do?”
IOW, a person who asserts “strong determinism” is not necessarily an atheist who believes everything happens by dumb, blind chance (without a purpose.)
It is irrelevant anyway because the effect of both views is exactly the same, i.e. the mind, soul, spirit, consciousness can be no more than an epiphenomenon, a secondary phenomenon which can cause nothing to happen.
That a man cannot willfully cause anything to happen means that all laws – whether of God or of man – are punishing a mindless material entity for something it could not not do. It is like hitting a rock for falling.
That is why the doctrine of predestination only (as compared to a mixture of both predestination and free will) – sets off my “Holy Spirit radar” – and it is why I bother to post on any predestination thread.
I Sam. xxviii. 3-6 mentions three methods of divine communication: (1) the dream-oracle, of which frequent mention is made also in Assyrian and Babylonian literature; (2) the oracle by means of the Urim (here, undoubtedly, an abbreviation for "Urim and Thummim"); (3) the oracle by the word of the Prophets, found among all Semitic nations….
The Urim and Thummim are implied, also, whereever in the earlier history of Israel mention is made of asking counsel of the Lord by means of the ephod (Josh. ix. 14; Judges i. 1-2; xx. 18 [rejected as a later gloss from ib. i. 1 by most commentators], 26-28; I Sam. x. 22; xiv. 3, 18, 36 et seq.; xxii. 10, 13; xxiii. 2, 4, 6, 9-12; xxviii. 6; xxx. 7 et seq.; II Sam. ii. 1; v. 19, 23 et seq.; xxi. 1. On the nature of the ephod see G. F. Moore, "Judges," 1895, pp. 380-399, where copious references and the literature are given; idem, "Ephod," in Cheyne and Black, "Encyc. Bibl."; and especially T. C. Foote, "The Ephod," in "Jour. Bib. Lit." [1902] xxi. 1-48). In all cases except I Sam. x. 22 and II Sam. v. 23 et seq., the answer is either "Yes" or "No." It has been suggested by Riehm and others that these two passages have undergone editorial changes. After the death of David no instance is mentioned in the Old Testament of consulting the Lord by means of the Urim and Thummim or the ephod. This desuetude is undoubtedly occasioned by the growing influence of the Old Testament prophecy.
Is it possible to just simply say that the only things that we know for sure that are predestinated are the things that are prophesied by the Holy Scriptures, that not everything is predestinated, but if it is prophesied in the Scriptures, then it is predestinated from that point forward, and therefore will come to pass.
In light of the above, I do not see my name prophesied in the Scriptures as destined for heaven, therefore how can I be predestinated to go there?
QUITE SO! Quite so!
Am glad you're the one who says things so much better than I tend to.
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. – John 12:47-48
The answer that no one has ever given us Calvinists around here is why do some respond and some don't? The verse you provided does not answer that question, but rather how is one saved.
The above verse is an outward call. Those who God foreordained for His own purpose will hear that and respond with faith. Those who are not foreordained will think it is foolish.
Romans 8:30 And those whom he predestined [God choose us] he also called,[ the verse you cite] and those whom he called he also justified,[He calls, he justifies] and those whom he justified he also glorified.[We will be at home with Him one day].
Well the Jewish people were never indwelt by the Spirit. At Sinai for example, He rested upon them so that they could understand and receive the Law. Then He departed. Other instances in the OT speak of much the same thing, Numbers 11:24-29.
What Stephen is referencing is their continual rejection, even killing, of their prophets, and Jesus, and the Word of God in which all of the prophets spoke of Christ. Here again, they are rejecting the Truth that the HS is pointing them to.
Jesus is referring to the OT
Deut: 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Ezr 2:63 And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.
Ne 7:65 And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and Thummim.
This breastplate had the 12 jewels representing the 12 tribes. It was a ceremonial garb and the priest wore it on special occasions. To this day, I think we have to admit that it is still unclear to us, all that it represented. However, as "a divine oracle" we have to understand that only one Spirit, God's Spirit was involved, as opposed to other oracles of the heathen who would have used their own imaginings in divination, or perhaps, did consult a spirit, but certainly not God's Spirit.