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To: B Knotts
Makes sense to me as a possibility. We know that the Church believes that non-Christians can theoretically be saved through Christ, even if they don't know his Name in this life.

Huh?

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

15 posted on 10/04/2006 7:25:51 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE
unless before death they are joined with Her

It depends on the definition of "joined with Her."

SD

17 posted on 10/04/2006 7:31:11 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: murphE

Yes. But they can be joined with Holy Mother Church in a mysterious way.


20 posted on 10/04/2006 7:34:58 AM PDT by B Knotts (Newt '08!)
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To: murphE
And again, it's just a theoretical possibility that they may be ultimately saved. We don't know definitively one way or another.

Obviously, the ordinary means of salvation would involve being a Catholic.

22 posted on 10/04/2006 7:37:22 AM PDT by B Knotts (Newt '08!)
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To: murphE
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

Thankfully, the Church now distinguishes between those responsible for heresy, schism and division, and those born into the resulting chaos, who sincerely seek the Truth.

The term "joined with her" is also conferred on the latter category.

28 posted on 10/04/2006 7:57:28 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: murphE

A Bull is not necessarily an infallible pronouncement.


38 posted on 10/04/2006 8:40:59 AM PDT by amihow
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To: murphE
"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

Of course this position is completely 100% unbiblical, but thanks anyway for being one of the few around here to admit the teaching of your church...

138 posted on 10/04/2006 8:23:22 PM PDT by Iscool
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