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To: Cvengr

You wrote:

"Some outstanding points. In many points of faith, of doctrine, I believe they agree with one another, simply as relatives, and probably as the son may have had some outstandinig parental guidance and tutaledge growing up."

Okay.

"I suspect it isn;t the Bible or the Logos or revealed truth of God that divides men, as much as it is our scarred thinking which has been misshaped from the world about us, our proclivity to sin in the old man, and temptation to substitute our thinking for His Way."

But that is my exact point. It isn't the Bible itself that divides men. Men divide one from the other by their interpretation. Sola scriptura is 100% dependent upon personal interpretation isn't it? So won't it naturally divide men and not resolve issues?

"Whereever two believers are both in fellowship with Him, there is no divergent interpretation on the issues which matter to Him and which He has revealed to man. There is a myriad of scarred thinking processes though which complicate things."

But this father and son are both, according to you I assume, in fellowship with Him, yet they disagree.

"One of those scarred thinking processes is when we fail to submit to Him through faith in Christ in anything we perform or think. For example, there are many degenerate believers who have degenerated in morality and slip into false doctrine. Such believers are frequently found as Christian activists and moral do-gooders. They have a tendancy to become legalists or to bounce back to emotionalism as a counterfeit search for happiness or distraction away from fellowship with Him."

I agree, but isn't that all the more reason to hold sola scriptura suspect? After all, it would seem to be prone to misuse, abuse and endless conflict. Not the scriptures, but sola scriptura.

"Such paths lead to many divergent expressions of doctrine and again some faulty thinking which is attributed to simply 'divergent interpretations'."

Again, I agree, but you don't seem to realize the role of the philosophical framework of sola scriptura which allows people to make these errors in the first place.

""The Pastor" makes an outstanding note, in that one way to reconcile between believers is to simply first to return to God on His grounds and protocol, then love our fellow man as we would love ourselves, and much of those contrived issues tend to lessen in intensity."

But who decides what is a contrived issue? I know many Protestants who think baptism is a contrived issue. Strange view when Jesus linked it to salvation and told His Apostles to teach and baptize the world. And how does sola scriptura even work if you don't know what books are supposed to be in the Bible? Where is the inspired table of contents? How do you know, via sola scriptura, that Matthew's gospel is inspired? Where do you even find sola scriptura in the Bible? If it isn't there then isn't your proposition for sola scriptura self-refuting?


36 posted on 09/03/2006 7:45:52 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
Sola scriptura is 100% dependent upon personal interpretation isn't it?

No, if studied first by simple faith in Christ, on His grounds, by His plan and protocols, not by us reading into Scripture, but by simple obedience to Him, allowing Him to do all the iterpretation for us, then we are able to to receive His revelation of Himself in us by His work, not by ours independent of Him.

He is all powerful and all-knowing. He knows the innermost workings of our hearts and souls. As we remain in fellowship with Him, He guides the renewing of our thinking (souls), then from our clensed thinking He also renews our spirit. From our renewed soul and spirit, we have better clensed our heart which manifests us in our works visible to others.

43 posted on 09/04/2006 3:19:55 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: vladimir998
But this father and son are both, according to you I assume, in fellowship with Him, yet they disagree.

I've read the article and IMHO, the author has displayed less grasp of Bible doctrine in his interpretation of events than probably either one of the Smith's considered. Accordingly the interpretation of conflict might be less accurate than portrayed.

If there are some doctrinl issues upon which they disagree, one and perhaps both of them might not be in fellowship with God on those particular issues. Accordingly, being taught by the one or both who might be in error on particular doctrinal issues isn't fruitful, but then again where elements of faith are used by the Holy Spirit to further sanctify the believer by the work of God and not men, it is still possible for the individual believer to grow through faith in Christ as he studies Scripture.

If doctrinal interpretations are mistaught, then the believer studying them, may be influenced by evil or good to follow a thinking that is independent of God, perhaps even a morally good interpretation, which is still independent from God. Accordingly, the first concern in identifying one's pastor-teacher is to first remain in fellowship with God and allow Him to guide us in that devotion, again through faith in Christ.

44 posted on 09/04/2006 3:32:24 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: vladimir998
but you don't seem to realize the role of the philosophical framework of sola scriptura which allows people to make these errors in the first place.

Sola Scriptura provides an outstanding doctrine or advanced policy of faith as a type of faith in our thinking, because it leads the believer to focus His thoughts upon what God has revealed through His Word.

When this doctrine is discussed amongst those who have simply accepted it out of faith to Him, there is no problem in their relationship, except when they take Scripture and instead turn it into man made words independent of God. At that point different interpretations are likely to arise, giving way to wrong thinking, and a degeneration of our thinking away from Him, perhaps even when we are unaware.

Just as we don't go out of our way to contrive arguments with other faithful believers if we see an error in their ways by challenging how they have their faith through Christ, it isn't fruitful to attack Sola Scriptura, where it is used by believers to guide them to return to faith through Christ only.

The fellowship between God and man is still a very personal relationship through faith in Christ.

45 posted on 09/04/2006 3:46:40 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: vladimir998
But who decides what is a contrived issue?

Let God decide and guide. It all begins with faith in Him and resting in Him to do that work through us. We only remain in fellowship as we remian in faith with Him. If we can walk and talk and chew bubblegum at the same time, we can also place faith in Him in all things we think and perform, in body, soul and spirit. It all is based upon us placing our faith in Him.

46 posted on 09/04/2006 3:50:42 AM PDT by Cvengr
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